Hey ladies, I'm back from vacation and walked straight into dealing with a C.A., as Puppetmaster says. This is a very clear situation to anyone who is reading the Bible without any loopholes or exceptions...but unfortunately because of this person's persona, or how "spiritual" they have seemed in times past, the behavior is not called by some (even some influential people) for what it is. Sometimes you know, you just have to call a spade a spade. Know what I mean? It's time to break out our Bibles, and just say, "HERE IS WHAT THE WORD SAYS, PERIOD. I don't care how long you've known so and so, how they have acted in times past, whatever ministry they have done, here are the facts of what's going on currently, so see it like it is.
What hurts most is, someone said to me, "well, what damage has she really done?" and indicated that their actions haven't caused what they intended. I guess what really hurts is, this came from someone I really love and respect. Well, I pointed out to the person that because God's favor and protection is upon my life it doesn't make their actions any less wrong, nor such that they should not be dealt with. God has protected me, Larry, and the ministry and I have been able to rise above and be even more effective. They haven't torpedoed my personal ministry, nor the church's. But that is definitely in spite of the attack. God has protected us...but does that mean they are innocent? You don't just let a person run amok because they have not been successful in destroying you. This would be like if the U.S. had a terrorist running around who made plans to blow up a building, and the govt. found out about it. Say the person tried to blow up a building but the bomb diffused and never worked. Would the govt. just say, "oh, it didn't work, just let them go...after all, they don't have a previous record." I mean, DUH! Of course you would deal with them so that hopefully another bomb would not be on the horizon! That's what happened to those kids in Miami or whatever it was, right? This is exactly the type of situation I see that I'm in right now, and that many pastors find themselves in.
The bible says in the end times, even the elect will be deceived. People see this person as elect personified. And I truly believe it would not matter what we were talking about - they could rob a bank and people would still say, "but look at all the good they did in the past"...or, "i'm sure no matter how bad this looks or sounds, they didn't mean it..." yada yada yada. The latest thing is, "I'm sure it was never her intention to hurt you or the church." Okay, so somebody hits you over the head...exactly what else WOULD their intention be? Sometimes also image is powerful and when people have an image of your C.A. as incredibly spiritual it can really be almost impossible to show them the truth of whatever it is the person has done. It's like, "don't confuse me with the facts..." Sometimes church people throw all biblical truth out when dealing with a C.A. - the only truth that matters to them is relational. If there's one thing that drives me crazy it's when people put relationship over truth.
Please pray for me, because they are really intent on hurting us. Larry brought the person in and gently (and I do mean gently) tried to show them the error of their ways. But it's almost as if they are untouchable - exempt from even questioning by the pastor. My husband is as gentle as a lamb - it takes so much for a person to even be called into his office that when someone is, you KNOW it's something serious, and definitely worthy of at least a conversation on the matter! Larry is so grace filled and he usually never even calls a person in on a first offense...he gives grace and waits to see if something is a pattern. My husband is gracious to a fault. But some people get to this level of "spirituality" in their minds or whatever that they believe it's not even a viable option that the pastor would even call them in. I know God WILL vindicate the righteous...he always does, but I really hope it happens sooner rather than later!
I love you ladies and thank God for your faithfulness in prayer. You have all been so faithful to hold each other up on this board.
Be thankful your husband is the kind of senior pastor who WILL take people like that to task, no matter how "spiritual" they appear to be...
Ministry: it's frustrating at times, but at the same time, where would we be without it?
You know...we should really plan a get-together for all of us. How about, say, in the middle of the U.S.? Like...Chicago, maybe?!?! LOL . I know...everyone wants to get together where they are.
I have thought many, many times about hosting a retreat for pastoring partners...but I hesitate to put all the planning into it if the interest just would not be there. I mean, the serious interest - of really planning to come and putting it on the calendar. I would love just to have the "meet and relax" time but I think with the unique issues that we deal with in pastoral ministry it would be important to have at least one or two times of sharing on that level, aside from just fun. What do you think?
Back on to the issue of the C.A. - yes, Larry confronts, but to be honest he's rethinking that now...not the issue of "should they be confronted"...but WHO should confront them. Larry is noticing that in big churches, it's never the senior pastor who is confronting these people, it's usually an executive pastor or someone of that nature, someone who is in authority, but someone besides the SP, so he doesn't always have enemy fire coming at him, but at the same time, the people are confronted and taken care of. Another words, a lot of these SP's have people who do the messy stuff like this for them. And I really do not think there is anything wrong with that. It's not like they are afraid to confront, but the point is, if they keep in the brou ha-ha every time, they seem to be the focus of the thing rather than the person who actually did the crime.
This kind of stuff just makes me so tired. It's like, "WHAT PART OF THIS DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?" Someone does something - it's completely unbiblical, completely wrong. So, how did the one who corrected them suddenly become the focus rather than their wicked behavior?
Our churches will do a lot better when we simply get back to the good old B--I--B--L--E! (as the old song says)
Deanna: Just want you to know that I've been praying for you today....
Get back to the Bible. What a concept!! I tell you, I am SOOOO naive. I happen to believe that if everyone spent their time loving God & loving each other the way 1 Corinthians 13 describes, churches across our nation & the world would be growing as on the day of Pentecost. Yep, I'm just a young pw....
I'm all in favor of delegating someone to do the "confronting," as long as they're backed by the SP...
My former SP was so afraid of conflict, that he would "pass the buck," so to speak, and try to wash his hands of the whole mess. So every unbiblical action in the church ended up becoming a "personality conflict" between people - rather than a case of someone blatantly disregarding Scripture, abusing power, whatever...it was always, "If you have a problem, then you need to go to them and tell them." Which is true, except that the Bible says if they still won't listen, then eventually disciplinary action needs to be taken.
But yeah - it is frustrating when someone thinks they're "above" Scripture...even the apostle Peter was corrected by Paul, for crying out loud! And if I'm reading my Bible right, Paul didn't wait for the situation to escalate and get completely out of hand before he stepped in and confronted Peter...and this was a guy who had walked with Jesus on the earth - talk about appearing to be spiritual!
Hmmm...I think I'm seeing the beginnings of a sermon for the next time I preach in "big church."
Well, in this case that I'm dealing with right now, here's the thing...
After my husband met with the person in question, they never came back to him with their issue. My husband confronted them, very gently I might add, and thought all was well. They actually repented, apologized and seemed very humble about it. But then a few weeks later, they changed their attitude and completely changed their story. I believe their pride-bone was hurt by the confrontation, even though it was gentle. They felt above correction and quite frankly some others feel that the person was above correction.
The person never came back and told us they were upset weeks later, they simply talked to others, tried to get them fired up by telling their side of things, and supposedly left. Due to the way they were perceived (as a certain status spiritually) it was hard for some to accept.
My dh has a new way he wants to handle these things. First of all, when anyone comes to him with third party information, he wants to tell them it is unequivocally not up for discussion. In other words, if you are coming to tell me that so and so has a problem and they have not discussed it with me? I don't care if a bomb is going off, I'm not talking to you about it.
Now, I know some will not like that...they feel that perhaps there was some reason the individual felt they could not come to the pastor (i hate those lame excuses - they are never biblical) but my dh says he's ready to lay the law down firmly on this. No matter who comes to him, even someone in leadership, he will tell them, "if it concerns me or a staff member and that person doesn't go to them directly, there is no discussion."
Second, when there is a confrontation he is considering having another leader deal with those things who he will back up completely.
We'll try this new tack with any problems that arise and see how it goes.
Thanks for your prayer, guys. It means a lot. I have all of you and some other friends praying about this, and rest assurred the battle in the spirit will be won. No weapon formed against us shall prosper...every tongue that riseth against us in judgment, He shall condemn...this is our heritage as servants of the Lord!
Deanna, I truly feel for you girl. I have been there, done that, got the t-shirt. Yes, it hurts. What hurt the most is seeing people who you thought were spiritually mature who are totally bamboozeled (is that a word?) by the perpetrator. It is a shame that as the body of Christ we can't all agree to let the Word of God be the final authority. I agree with Judah, no one is above correction. People need to get that non-scriptural thought out of their minds.
