It has been so long since I have been able to post and I almost feel like I need to introduce myself, as I look on the postings, I see that we have had several new members come to join us and to them I say WELCOME!!!!!!!!!!!!
Okay, here I am putting myself on the altar... I probably need to be on the alter because I need to make a change!
When last I greeted you beloved ladies I was in the process of moving, well here it is a month later and I have moved... Still not in my own residence, but that itself has a purpose, so I am not complaining - although I have complaints...
But here is my update...
My husband became the Co-Pastor at Salem on the week that I went to visit my mother... (which set my nerves on edge, but neither he nor they know that) Fortunately it was not a program or anything "official" but it was the fact that they did the vote and discussion without me... BUT I DIGRESS.
When I came here (after my three year experience in South Carolina) I came promising myself that I would not allow myself to make the same mistakes I made there... Which are my perpetual mistakes of doing everything I do just because I can... For example I played for the church we just left for three years for free (just because they had a need) and when they finally got a musician (who has resigned since we left) they vote to pay her nearly $400 per Sunday and they still expected me to continue to play for free while she was there... And for all concerned it is not the matter of the money, it is the respect that goes with paying someone.
Well on Sunday, my father-in-law delivered the message... (I did not say he preached because he has not been doing much of that - he actually just reads the scripture and does vocal inflection as he restates the verses... no information, no edification, just reading) Instead of sitting in my normal seat I sat further towards the back because I just wasn't feeling the hat row and my mother-in-law was babysitting the twins... At any rate, I sat in front of this couple that has been visiting quite frequently and during the service we smiled and laughed and enjoyed the Lord together... Well after FFB got through preaching (reading or whatever you call it) the woman said well how do I rededicate my life to Christ (she whispered it to me and Felicia who sat next to her) and we told her the process and she got up to join the church. Well as she was sitting there, David came out of the pulpit and went to the guy she comes with and asked him, "don't you hear the Lord talking to you, God called the two of you to be together, why would you let her go without you to become closer to the Lord?" so needless to say the guy got up and joined too... As we were about to "vote them in" the guy says can I say something... So of course everybody got quiet, and then he began to talk about how he had been in church his whole life, he used to teach Sunday School, he used to be a junior deacon, etc. but that he never felt like he was a part of the church but that he is just so excited that Salem wants him to be there, then his girlfriend said that she was from Liberia and that she has been looking for a spiritual home and she feels so comfortable there and she is excited and that she will be marrying her fiancee in that church. (Needless to say that ended any questions about who he was to her and who she was to him).... Well after that we just hugged them and loved them all up... So as church was ending I put on my coat and then one of the ladies said oh no Sis. Ronnelle, don't do that we need you for the meeting... Of course I am like WHAT meeting... But it ended up being the meeting about the music ministry and how we need to start a praise team and how the youth choir needs help... So we started talking and then out of nowhere they suggested that we move closer to the piano... So when we get up there the MofM says okay let us get still while Sis. Ronnelle finds a song to teach us... I COULD HAVE FALLEN ON THE FLOOR... How did I get to be the musician? Needless to say I rose the the occasion... (I'm explaining not complaining) But the issue that I had was that we had people in their 30's, 40's and 50's singing with two teenagers who haven't even started smelling themselves good. Ridiculous... That won't work and I have to find a tactful way to let them know it won't...
So now I have the responsibility of developing a youth choir and the Praise team... Not that they don't have a minister of music, but his specialty is concert music... Which is why I sing on his Chorale (not at the church - this is a community choir) so I can get my singing fix...
As it relates to work, this is still utopia... Although I have come to see the rough sides of most of the people here, I still love my job and the fact that I don't have too much of one to do. The biggest problem I have is that people are doing things that they should come through me for instead of doing on their own and then I have to play clean up to fix their messes... But that at least gives me something to do when I normally would otherwise be surfing the internet.
We were in revival last week and on the last night the revivalist prophesied to David and really encouraged him about how important it is to God that he moved back home... He said I know that you are struggling with the fact that you left a profitable congregation to come here and not have anything in your pocket, but God is about to do a new thing in you and he is going to build not only you up, but he is going to increase all that surrounds you... I believe it, therefore I shall see it.
I'll continue this saga later... I have to go eat.
How did I get to be the musician? Needless to say I rose the the occasion... (I'm explaining not complaining)
Flow, I think in one way this is good for you -- you were treated so poorly in some ways at the other church and perhaps this is a place for you to shine where they will truly appreciate what they have. Unless you rise to the occasion, they don't see it. What do you think?
And for all concerned it is not the matter of the money, it is the respect that goes with paying someone.
I absolutely understand where you are coming from. It's the respect. I dealt with the same thing for years, and it was difficult.
The biggest problem I have is that people are doing things that they should come through me for instead of doing on their own and then I have to play clean up to fix their messes...
Oh gosh, can I ever relate to that! I have dealt with this so many times. it's tiring!
So, what is exactly going on there in relation to your husband's role. Do you see his father stepping down in the next year or so and turning the church completely over to him? I guess his father is very ill and not fulfilling all the duties he normally did? That must be very difficult.
I do have major respect for what you guys have done, leaving a FT paid position at a church to do this. Do you think your husband did this out of love and respect for his father and wanting to carry on his work there?
Well finishing out the line in the song, it's me, it's me, it's me Oh Lord, STANDING IN THE NEED OF PRAYER!
I am not clear about my husband's role, last night brought on a new issue for me... The church voted to make my husband Co-Pastor primarily because although my father-in-law is sick and not operating in his full mental capacity, they are not ready to retire him (or perhaps I should say they don't want to retire the idea of him...) He has been their pastor for over 40 years and he is the leading spiritual authority in their lives... Most of them came to Salem when he left his former church to start this one, so to them he is the "end all". I think that the issue for inlaws is that although they recognize that the torch needs to be passed and that things won't grow until they let it go into more steady and energetic hands, that secretly they are upset that people are taking so well to the enthusiasm with which people gravitate to my husband... Of course they say little things that make me feel this way like, "yeah well these people have known David all of their lives and they are still getting used to him coming home..." or "as long as they have known David they are acting like he is a new toy"... The other day when the revivalist (in tears) prophesied about how great is was for my father-in-law to embrace the ministry of my husband and how proud he is that my husband has come home to take hold of the reins, both of my inlaws were in tears and just all broken up... I thought it was because of the spirit moving, but last night gave me a different picture...
Let me start by saying I may be overly sensitive in this arena, because I have been down this road before BUT... I was asked to teach the children's Bible study during their 10 week Church Institute. I asked was there a topic and was told no, just teach whatever the Lord lays on my heart... Well I am first and foremost a worshipper and I get my thrill from teaching about praise and worship so that is what I chose. Also because the youth (the few we have) at Salem generally look bored out of their minds, I asked them what do they do when they are at home and no one is watching... Most of them said they like to dance, listen to music, watch tv, etc. So I said well did you know that you can dance and listen to music and it be pleasing to God? So I introduced the concept of liturgical/praise dance and worship music... The kids seemed really excited about it and we talked and laughed and had a wonderful time...
Actually let me back up, when they came upstairs they said well where are the games? To which I said I have some activities for us to do today, but we aren't playing games all night - and then they said but they told us we were coming here to play all night. Well I am not a babysitter, I am a teacher, I am worship leader... Babysitter - not. They said that they were told that while their parents were learning that they would be upstairs playing board games and stuff like that not that they were going to do anything. They were just supposed to be out of the way.... So I explained that we are coming to LEARN and we will have fun LEARNING but that they should expect that they will leave my Bible Study time with a new understanding and that they should leave excited about coming back... Well they had a ball and so did I, for once, I felt like I was in the right place at the right time... That I had an opportunity to take this church to a new and higher level because I had kids who were previously bored stiff, feeling free and moving towards a closer understanding of what it means to focus on God. Don't get me wrong, they still want to giggle and wiggle, but they were looking at the words of the song (Spirit of the Living God - New Jersey Mass Choir) and they were explaining why they chose the movements they did to match the lyrics.... The argument about whether God should be one hand in the air or two hands moving in the air because they wanted to debate if we should explain that God is high above us and there is one God only or if because He was everywhere and moving in our lives was enough to make me want to shout the victory, because I could see that they were getting it.
THEN I GOT HOME... As I was talking about the enthusiasm that the kids had for what they had learned and what we were studying my mother-in-law said well you were out of order because you did not clear your lesson plan with the Pastor. I was so thrown that I could have fallen through the floor. Number one - When I asked if there was a topic, I was told to do whatever. Number two - When I talked to them (BOTH) about what I would like to work on with kids (different forms of worship/opportunities for youth leadership), they said NOTHING! Number three - My husband not only knew what I was teaching he joked with me about how I better use some WD40 to make sure my bones didn't creak... But the issue was that I did not ASK my father-in-law if he had a problem with praise dancing. Which apparently he does. I had to get a lecture about how John the Baptist lost his head because of dancing... Which is spiritually and scripturally immature... But I didn't argue the point I just listened and then when all of the talking was done I went to the bedroom and quietly fumed...
I went from quietly having smoke coming out of my ears and I was just by myself in total hurt and frustration but I was quiet until my husband caused me to blow my stack... He gave me this talk about the fact that the church is the size it is and is as "dead" as it is not is an accident. Which I am sure you will understand, was not a helpful statement... Then he gave me this well you can only do what you can do, they aren't ready for all that you are trying to do, you just have to take babysteps... yada, yada, yada.... To which I gave the only response that my heart could (I'll repent later)... "Didn't I tell you I didn't want to come here? Why did you think this was good for my ministry? Is it good for my ministry that I am being asked to lead people to the next level, when the next level is against the vision of the leadership? Is it good for my ministry that I have to listen to disjointed preaching? Is it good for my ministry that I have two heads to report to and that they don't even agree? Is it good for my ministry that I am once again being asked to do the work of a paid employee out of the 'goodness of my heart'?" Needless to say he has no words for me right now.
The issue at this point is that I have the kids excited about the Lord and His church and now I have to tell them that at this church we are not allowed to express ourselves in dance... Which is a major problem for me because I had already begun the lesson about how one of the Hebrew words for praise is translated dance and how dancing as a form of worship was used to bless the name of the Lord and was precious to the people of God...
Now the whole thing about the musician for the praise ministry is that I have a feeling that the Minister of Music is about to pull back from a lot of duties because he is now trying to develop his music career and wants to take his show on the road... I honestly do not want the responsibility of having to build two choirs again... I wouldn't mind doing the praise team (and even now I am concerned that this is going to be a problem too... I'm not sure my father-in-law understands what type of music I will be doing... and since my husband is not as much "CO" as he thinks he is, ultimately I think he was given the title just to differentiate his ranking in the other ministers in terms of what to do at my father-in-law's death, not that they expect him to have any real authority... They have him there to help build the building, not to build the ministry...
HUMPH!
As my father-in-law once asked another minister who was going through growth pains, do you know why they killed Jesus???? The answer - He messed with their traditions.
Wow, Flow...I can totally understand why you are so upset! What an night.
Do you think your mother in law has more of a problem than your FIL? It sounds like she is the one that had the problem and addressed you. Did your FIL actually say anything to you about not asking first or the praise dancing? Just curious because this may be a thing more of her not wanting to let go of the PW role? I say this because it seems your FIL is sickly or lethargic and not much energy...does he even have the energy to care about this?
I cannot even IMAGINE going to a place that my husband decided on and all before I even knew about it, and was voted in...etc. etc. ughhh!!!
Have you thought of just staying out of ministry until your dh becomes the pastor? Until he can empower you I think you will be at a big time clash with your MIL.
Flow, we are standing with you. Keep your chin up.
Oh my! I've done the FIL thing! All I can say is that God delivers. Took us to a completely different state! But what do you do in the meantime because frustration is eating away at you? You and hubby are going to have to stand as a united front against all of this. Any crack in the armor and the enemy will try to wedge you apart. You may have to pull back a bit. Pray and ask God exactly what you should be doing. There's probably so much to do and so much that needs to be fixed, it can be overwhelming. Especially since you and hubby don't have the authority to make the changes you see are so needed.
As long as your husband is in this co-pastor role, you don't have power to act on your vision. The old vision and visionary are still in place and it's frustrating because you see so much potential. You see where the people should be in God and it hurts cause they're not.
Told you I've been there.
My FIL church has not changed in years. When he dies, the church will have the chance for change and growth. Won't happen until then because his vision runs the house.
Wow Flow! Wow! I'm dumbfounded. I echo Deanna "Have you thought about staying out of the ministry until your dh is pastor?" I can only imagine what you are going through ... dealing w/ in-law issues in the context of ministry. Outside of your current situation, how has your relationship been w/ your in-laws in the past? Has it been positive or strained?
Thank you for your prayers and support, I wish that I could back down or back away... It is simply however not an option. The reality is a simple one... My in-laws are not ready to release... What I had not seen until this morning is my MIL's issue... It is my FIL that is sick not her... It is him that is weak not her, so why should she have to relinquish her "position".... My FIL has accepted that his health will not allow him to build the ministry any further... All he wants now is relevancy... My MIL on the other hand is a vibrant woman who is still working a full-time job and she still feels she has much to offer and she does not see why things should have to change for her...
The problem is that I think she thought that my husband would come and be a carbon copy of his father and he is not... Why because my husband is not from the carbon copy generation, he is culturally relevant and spiritually educated... My husband is well on his way to an earned doctorate where my FIL has only earned a diploma... My husband has developed his gifts in many arenas where all my FIL has done is "church"... Not that this is a bad thing, but this is a new season.
I sang yesterday - Let it Breathe on Me (the hymn) and my husband brought forth the message, service was powerful and in it there was a very visible demonstration of how the paradigm shift was going to take place... Both of my inlaws were out of church yesterday, my FIL was not feeling well and my MIL went back to the house to find out why he never showed up... And service just had an entirely different feel to it...
NOW THERE IS NEW DRAMA... One of the older Associate Ministers went to my husband yesterday to ask what his role is going to be since my husband is co-pastor... He said that he felt slighted because he has been there the whole time and thought that things would be more equitable... To which my husband asked well what are your aspirations in ministry? He said I want to Pastor, then my husband said well did you expect that you would pastor here? And he said "well not necessarily... But you preached three times in the past six weeks, you preached two weeks in a row and then you were gone one week, so really you preached three times in five weeks. What am I chopped meat??" My husband had no response.
Now I thought the issue would have been my brother-in-law (who is the other associate minister), but he (at the age of 42) has vowed to be immature for the rest of his life and said that he doesn't want that kind of responsibility (SO HE SAYS!) and he of course puts very little effort towards his ministry - (for example he arrived at service yesterday more than 30 minutes late - and we live across the street).
There is so much that adds to my frustration with this situation, but at the same time what I have decided to do is focus on what I am called to do and let my husband deal with the rest... I guess the bottom-line is that I was created to handle these problems... As my husband shared yesterday from Hosea - he said is time for the church to take attention off of the problem (GOMER) and focus on what God wants you to learn from it (HIS PLAN FOR HIS PEOPLE)... And recognize that Gomer's name means to perfect (to finish or complete) - God has a plan for my life and this craziness has been brought to my life so that God can finish his plan and complete his work in me that I may be PERFECT AND ENTIRE LACKING NOTHING!
There is a praise that will come from this TEST I'M ON (even if I have to ask) Y! TESTIMONY!
Wow, you do have your hands full. That is what I suspected, that your fil is ailing and meanwhile your mil is not ready to give up the ministry and still has some energy in her. Oh my, my my. Well, does your fil have enough stamina to take her aside and say, "Look honey, I know you love doing this, however our time is up here and we need to relinquish things to the kids at this point..." Or would she simply over-ride him on that?
The thought I have is - the people have had a taste of your ministry and they are going to be craving more. If his parents don't realize their season is up and relinquish, they may have some people who just won't wait years for them to do it, and they will find the church dwindling more.
You've got your hands full, but God knew you were the woman for the job.
