When do you just throw in the towel and say, "Enough is enough!"? When do you stop fighting? How do you keep yourself from feeling that you've failed in your ministry? You all have read about my struggles in my church over the past year. YP and I are both about ready to shake the dust off our feet and move on. We both have leads on churches in the area that are hiring...
I am tired. I just composed a 3-page letter to my SP and board explaining how I have been feeling. I don't know if I'm ready to send it - but it did help me sort out my feelings some.
I was raised in a culture (Northern MN - watch the upcoming film "North Country" starring Charlize Theron to get an idea of the mentality of my hometown!!) where if you quit, you've failed. It's that black & white. So I'm struggling with that.
I don't like quitting, and I don't like saying goodbye. There are so many great people in my church that I would miss terribly. But without a covering from my senior pastor and my board, how can I stay and truly minister to them?
Everyone that YP and I talk to, as I mentioned before is saying, in effect, "You idiots! Get out of there and don't look back!!"
Just trying to get some objective advice...I've never resigned an "official" ministry position before...
I am hoping you get this post before you do anything. First...
PLEASE DO NOT SEND THAT LETTER TO THE BOARD. I REPEAT - PLEASE DO NOT SEND THAT LETTER TO THE BOARD!!!
The letter is for your Sr. Pastor only. You are responsible to the senior pastor, not to the board. Perhaps in this wacked out setting you have been in with this CA who has control, and a board with probably way too much control, you have not been given the proper teaching as to your role. As a staff pastor, you are responsible to God and your pastor. Your role is not to answer to the board or discuss this with them. You must be loyal to your pastor. Going to the board is not right, but going to your pastor is. You have the right to express yourself in private to your pastor and to his wife. But please do not take your feelings to the board.
I believe that the relationship that concerns you should be your relationship with your pastor and his wife. When going to a church, this is what you have to focus on. Because if that doesn't work, nothing will. In past situations when we were staff members we would have pastors invite us in for a weekend to "meet the youth" etc., even before we sat down and really got to to know the pastor. We discovered that WAS NOT the way to go. If you are a good children's or youth pastor, you will always love children and you will always love youth no matter where you go. But the question is, CAN YOU WORK WITH THIS PASTOR? If not, it doesn't matter how great the children are. When we hire staff here, my husband does not even allow the church to meet a candidate until we are almost to the end of the process. Whether he/she gets along with the people is of no consequence. If they don't get along with us, it's all down the drain. So we make sure our relationship is workable first. After that, if they are truly called and anointed, they will have a heart for people, period.
You do not stay or go in a church because of the people. What this depends on is...can you flow with your pastor's working style? If you have a good relationship with the pastor, you can withstand just about anything. Because you are in unity. With that said, you are there to flow with your pastor, not the othe way around. Therefore, can you flow with him? If not, the thing to do is not expect him to change but for you to quietly leave and be loyal to him all the way out the door. God will bless you for it.
God will open up many ministry opportunities to you if you do this, but you will find many doors shutting in your future if you have the reputation of someone who goes to the board, or discusses things w/church members (no matter if they are board/leadership or not) when you leave.
The things you have shared on this message board are for discussion between your pastor, and your minister friends, such as your best friend, or on this board. You can't share this info with church people. It will bite you at every turn and it has the ability to destroy your future. Even if your pastor is wrong, you can't share your feelings on your way out the door.
Puppetmaster, I know you really love your pastor, you are just frustrated with his lack of action on these matters. This is how I see it -- after all you have shared with us, I sense that your pastor has a fear of man. Many pastors do when they are starting out in senior pastoring...that spirit needs to be broken over them, but they don't know how, they are so scared. Scared that tithers will leave, scared that people will leave, scared of what will happen to their future, what will happen financially, scared of naysayers, board members, etc. This is a stronghold that must be broken. Your pastor is struggling in having the courage to stand up. That's why I recommended that book by Bevere. I believe it would rock his world and change his life. I have not ever met your pastor but I believe, he is not a bad man, he is simply a man who is probably scared out of his mind. Now, with that said...
While he is working through being scared out of his mind and getting the fear of man out of him and the fear of God in him...I know it's frustrating for you. You are standing by while your pastor 'grows'. You feel like you are going to die of frustration in the process. You need to figure out: are you willing to stay and deal with him growing in this (he's not perfect - even us SP's have a lot of growing to do!) or...do you think for your own emotional health it is best that you move on? Quite truthfully no position is worth losing your mental health over. Perhaps it is wisdom for you to get another position where there are not all of these uprisings going on and so much turmoil in the church. Abusive churches are very difficult to pastor.
I understand your pain - I've been there. Due to experience, I understand your pastor's pain too. Pray and get the mind of God on this. If you feel a release and feel you just cannot handle waiting for months or years until your pastor grows through this...then quietly resign.
If you need to talk to someone, I'm always here...and I know many other ladies on the board here are as well. I do not mean to hurt your feelings AT ALL by anything in this post. Sometimes e-mails and posts are difficult because you don't get the expression and the true intent of people's hearts but trust me I do not say this out of anything but wanting the best for you...and having a love for you. Please just do all that you do in the spirit of Jesus, and do not go to anyone but your pastor.
Also -- is there a director of children's ministries in the district who may be of help to you in giving wisdom, direction, counsel, etc? These people are definitely appropriate for you to go to in these situations.
Puppetmaster: I know that you are hurting right now. I so dislike the church politics. And you're in a difficult sitation: the sp has the power to correct the situation, and unfortunately, you & yp are just having to sit by & wait. Very difficult.
Of course, we only know about your situation from what you have told us. I'm not sure if you have spoken to your sp about the reason(s) that he changed his mind concerning your current CA. Is it possible that more is going on than you know?
I do know that w/ our former CA, dh wanted to confront him when everything first exploded. BUT our presbyter advised dh not to do this. Then, about 6 weeks ago, dh decided that he was going to confront the CA after learning the CA was spreading the lies. This time, the Lord stopped dh from doing this. Within the month, the CA was gone. Could your sp have received counsel from another pastor, presbyter, or even a word from the Lord about what to say & not say right now?
As far as resigning a church / ministry positions: In almost every situation, dh & I have both felt a release in our spirits. We knew it was time to go. Things were a little different in our last situation. I didn't know it, but dh had started feeling that it might be time to go. Then, we had the situation arise where we were publicly attacked in the church ... we were bad parents w/ bad kids (we had a 6 year old son who ran in the church even after I had gotten on to him - how horrible we are!!). I left church service that morning knowing that I was through w/ the church there. I told dh that I would stay if that is what he wanted, but I would have major difficulty. Dh resigned a month later. However, he had to deal with major feelings of inferiority, inadequacy, and basically being a failure.
Someone said recently here on the board that it is good to go out during a high note. I understand why. Emotionally, dh would have felt better had he tried to stay a little longer.
Making the decision to stay/leave is a definitely a difficult one. Remember, we're praying for you.
I totally understand where you're coming from, and I DON'T plan to send my letter to the board. If I send it to anyone, it will just be my SP...it was mostly a way for me to sit down and write out how I have been feeling about working in the church. I honestly didn't know how I felt about it, and writing it out helped clarify a lot of things in my mind.
As far as people we've talked to, it consists of, as you said, other pastors, our parents, and close friends who are completely OUTSIDE the situation. We have so not talked to other people, that when the board initially met to make the decision about this particular person, they didn't even have a clue as to what was going on (At least this current situation. Since the last situation involved one of them, there was at least one that knew what had gone on there!).
I have an e-mail in to our district's CE director, and our YP has one in to the DYD to set up meetings to talk about this situation.
The thing about our SP is that half the time, we don't even know if HE plans on staying long term. He will say things like, "I don't even know if I see a vision for this church anymore," or "After this, I may just go back to being a staff pastor."
Don't get me wrong - I do love and adore my senior pastor. That's what makes this so hard. Truthfully, I know the kids would get over me in about five seconds. They're kids. They don't even remember what they ate for dinner the day before! There are a lot of great people in the church that I would miss, but I haven't built any lifelong friendships with most of them. YP and her husband plan on staying in the area for at least a few more years (in fact, if they end up resigning, they may look for a place closer to us, since we live about five minutes from where he works, as opposed to the 30-40 minutes he drives now!), so that's not a huge concern.
But the biggest thing that has kept me from resigning for the past year is having to tell him and his wife, who I have come to love and consider my friends. I imagine the looks on their faces. I think about never getting to see them again, or seeing their kids grow up. I love them to pieces - I just don't know if I can work in a place where I feel like I'm constantly trying to fight to convince them that they need a children's pastor, where the $$ I make is basically enough to put gas in my car to get me there, and where people have pretty much been given permission to attack all the members of the pastoral staff whenever they want, because nothing is ever done to shut it down.
It's not a matter of whether I love, or have a good relationship with, my senior pastor. It's whether or not I can handle working in that atmosphere, knowing that he, as my supervisor, is not going to back me if I need it. Who do I go to, if not my SP? He has the covering of the presbyter, who has the covering of the district. But it's been the YP and her husband and myself and my husband all covering each other, because there's no one else. And that's put a strain on our marriages and our relationships with each other. It's like I've said, I can find a new ministry somewhere. I can't order new friends from a "best friends" catalog, and I certainly can't find a new husband. Not that my marriage (or my friendships!) is in danger by any means, but things could definitely be better..
As far as the question of whether or not he has received advice from someone outside the situation, I don't think so. He came back from a pastors' retreat last week all fired up to give an ultimatum to this man and tell him that he needs to make things right or he's not welcome to come back, and by the time he had actually talked to CA #2 (or #102 - I don't even know!), he had backed down to, "Well...it's a process, and our goal is reconciliation, and I'm not willing to go to the step of removing him..." Even though he acknowledged that we were at that Biblical step, he doesn't want to go there.
As I said in the letter that I may or may not send , how they handled my situation set a precedent. How they're handling it now is setting that policy in stone.
So anyway, I just wanted to clarify some of the questions from my first post. I still haven't made up my mind yet...
Thanks for your prayers and advice, everyone, and for being a sounding board!!
Sounds like you are on the right track Puppetmaster. Please don't take what I said as a spanking at all! I was just trying to help you avoid some mistakes, that's all. I'm glad you planned not to send it to the board, and that you've kept all your conversations out of the church. That is wise and you will be blessed.
Here is my thought - can you verbalize this to your pastor and wife? Could you have dinner with them and then broach the subject and say..."I love you to pieces...this is why I am struggling so bad..." and share your heart. Reassure them you have not talked to anyone in the church, nor will you, but you must open up to them.
I am guessing this is your pastor's 1st Sr. Pastorate. It was not wise of him to tell you he might throw in the towel and leave...but I'm sure he's learning. (the reason I say that is not because I don't think you can handle it, but simply because when a Sr. Pastor does that, it scares the staff and demoralizes them...it makes it hard to work with passion.) But things are so crazy right now and he's just starting out and hasn't learned that yet. Understand - he's human. He's got an abusive church on his hands and he doesn't know what to do. Let him know - if he's committed to change, you love him and want to stay with he and his wife and work together for a breakthrough. But if he forsees not being able to shatter these strongholds and moving on, let him know for the sake of your mental health and marriage, you have to move on.
Here is what I believe...if he believes he can break through with the help of you and the YP -- if he thinks you may move on - I believe he will try to summon up courage with the CA. If not -- he might just tell you that he does not believe he is the one to move this mountain, and advise you to move on. Either way, you have your answer. And hopefully you can remain close to your SP and wife because of the way it was handled.
Put the ball in his court. Lovingly say, "Pastor, I am not giving any ultimatum or asking you to change. I am simply asking...do you forsee a change? Will the staff be able to have your backing in these matters? If you do not feel you can, then that is your decision. But I need to know because quite honestly I cannot physically, emotionally and spiritually handle it anymore. I love you, but I must know where you forsee things going. I need to have an idea of where you see things headed in this church and in this situation."
If you handle it that way you are not forcing his hand and saying, "Change or I'll leave", but you are simply asking him what he plans to do. Based on that, you can make your decision. And then, stay - or leave - in a Godly manner.
It sounds like a good suggestion...I am going to hold out and wait until this weekend is over, because...
#1. Our theatre company has a show opening tomorrow, and I need to be focused on that...I'm playing the cook in "Alice in Wonderland."
#2. This particular CA has not yet submitted to what he was told to do by the SP and the board, and hasn't called the YP to try to make things right, which he said last Saturday that he was going to do in the next couple of days (Since it's now Thursday, it's been more than "a couple of days."). SP has said that by this Monday, this situation will be over. As in, he is supposedly going to call him and say that until he makes things right, don't come back. Knowing this guy and his track record, I'm guessing that he and his family will leave in a huff.
Still waiting...and hoping that things turn out well. SP asked DH yesterday if we would leave if YP and her husband left. DH replied that it depends on their reason for leaving. He said that if I don't feel that I can minister in this church, that we'd have no choice. He made it clear that we weren't being all junior high about it (i.e. "Our best friends are resigning, so we are, too!"), but that how this situation is handled will set a precedent as to how we can expect to be backed.
I keep telling DH to call me and put me on speaker phone when he has these conversations with SP, lol! That's the disadvantage to his working in the church office and my working 1/2 hour away during the day. They'll start talking about the church bulletin or calling the worship team to remind them of practice, and then the conversation will drift to whatever is on SP's heart. Then by the time I get there, they've moved on...
Anyone know of a dying Christian philanthropist that I can become extremely good friends with real fast, so I can inherit a lot of $$, pay off all my debts and work full time as a children's pastor?
I know you are frustrated about your dh having these conversations with the pastor when you are not there but at least you know your dh is backing you up and saying what you would want him to say. I think the point has been made clear to the pastor that you cannot go on in this situation if you are not receiving his backing.
It sounds as if your CA may indeed leave...they are trying to dodge having to apologize. Maybe they will leave and this will be it for now, but keep in mind the next time a CA kicks up, you have to be assured that your pastor will back you.......so you may be in the same situation again if it's not rectified with the pastor now.
I definitely plan to have a talk with my SP regardless of the outcome of this particular situation. This is just not a good week...I haven't gotten to bed before midnight since last Friday night (It's tech week, or "hell week," as it is commonly known in the theatre - the week a show opens!). When I'm this exhausted, a "pour your heart out" type of conversation is not a good idea! But yes, I think a nice, friendly, heart-to-heart, WITHOUT the board there to put their $.02 in is a great idea .
And yes, this church is my SP's very first senior pastorate!! Talk about your baptism by fire...
I am SO ready for some fun! The Wilson's Leather Sale opens next week (quality leather products at RIDICULOUSLY low prices!), my nails are a mess, and my poor, messed up right shoulder is begging to be submerged into a hot tub .
You're absolutely right...I think you need to do something special for yourself. Sometimes it's the most spiritual thing you can do!!! Please, after this show is over.......bless yourself!
As a general rule, writing long letters regarding negative feelings/situations is helpful for you to sort out your thoughts/feelings but mailing them to the person is generally not a good idea. It is always better to speak in person whenever possible. It's a good idea to do this with your spouse also.
A good approach is a sandwich approach: (not subway:)
You would open with affirmation and appreciation (1st piece of bread). In this, you would state the things you admire, like, or appreciate about the situation or person.
The center would be where the meat/fixins would go. Appeal in a very respectful manner, non-accusatory but dealing with the issue at hand.
The last slice of bread: Close with affirmation, appreciation, and a future hope of what you can invision or would like to see happen. Finally, be prepared to accept whatever the authority decides. If you disagree, then move on peaceably and with integrity.
