Well, I'm writing to get your thoughts on something that drives me crazy, just seeing if you go through the same...it helps sometimes to just know you aren't alone.
The other day I was in a leader's meeting in the district and one of the people in leadership was teaching about various people we should select for our leadership team @ the church. Someone inquired about putting certain people on the team and the leader said, "Only put them on if they have a voice." I said, "what do they mean by that?" Our supt.'s wife leaned over and said to me, 'it means if they have an influence..." Okay...
I agree completely with what the leader was saying, and my pet peeve is...those who really, in my opinion, haven't earned the right to speak, but do. In other words, those who "don't have a voice" but think they do. I really believe the only people that should have "a voice" so to speak, are those who actually do something in the church. Do "armchair quarterbacks" ever bother you? What I mean by that is people who really aren't in the game or playing it, but they are just like a big fat guy sitting on a sofa watching a football game who screams at the TV about what he thinks the people playing the game should do. He thinks he knows all the answers but meanwhile, he has never really done it himself, therefore he has no real credibility.
I am sure like me, you all have people like this. Some of them "hang around" the church but they are not truly involved in doing the work of the ministry. Because they are in proximity to what's going on they think they have the right to say, "I think this," or "I think that."
I sort of make a habit to only ask our actual workers what they think. I don't really see any reason to ask someone who is uninvolved, no matter "who" they are.
For instance, something I learned from this leadership mtg. that I just went to was that a lot of churches have people on their deacon board who do not "do" any ministry in their church, (other than deacon) they simply attend. But because of who they may be in the community, or because they are a good businessman, etc. they are put on the board.
Do you all have issue with all that as I do? I just really think for anyone to have a voice, they should earn it -- through serving, actually serving. My husband believes even pastor's wives must earn a voice. Just being married isn't enough. My dh told me the other day that if I was not the extreme worker/servant that I am, if I shared all the opinions I do all the time, it would drive him crazy! He has known other pw's that do not really do much in ministry yet they tend to loudly voice, "this needs to be done this way or that" or they will march in and give their opinion on everything from the color of the church carpet to whatever. But he says, "Baby, you've earned the right to be heard. No one gives more than you do, and when you speak, I not only listen up but so do the people."
What do you think?
Love you - hope you have a great Sunday tomorrow...
In a small church like mine, everyone feels that they need to be consulted with every single decision. My husband (the church administrator!), our senior pastor, and our pastor's wife decided to repaint and rearrange the church office a few months ago. Our church has three board members and two of them were aware and completely approved of it. The third was on vacation. When DH typed up the minutes from the last board meeting, he said it was "noted that major remodeling had been done in the church office without consulting all of the board members."
We are also planning a Kids' Crusade for the end of July, and my pastor told me to make sure the dates we picked work with all of my workers. I asked him, "So by workers do you mean the people who actually teach classes and help out each week, or does that include the people who help out VERY occasionally but feel that they need to be consulted with every decision that is made with the children's ministry, just because they're members of this church?" We had an issue with that last year with VBS - someone even went so far as to get annoyed because they didn't like the way the craft tables were set up (not the arts and crafts person, BTW!). So, anyway, my pastor looked at me and said, "You can tell those people they can blow it out their ear! If they're not doing the work, then they don't need to be consulted about every single decision."
So, I totally agree with that: If someone wants to have an opinion, then they need to earn the right to have that opinion. I don't have time in my ministry for people who won't even get involved - people who will come up to me and give me a dozen reasons why they're too busy to even be put on a nursery or Sunday School sub list, but then will come up to me the next week and give me all sorts of advice as to how I should be running the ministry. AAGH!
Speaking of people with opinions, I'd appreciate all your prayers tonight - the entire pastoral staff and the board are getting together for the monthly board meeting, in which our pastor is going to tell the board that their purpose (according to our church bylaws) is to be an advisory council for the pastor, not to have legislative power. In other words, the treasurer's job is to keep the books and pay the bills and salaries, not dictate to the pastors what they can and cannot spend $$ on. My DH (always the optimist!) doesn't think it's going to be intense, but I am thinking that even if the meeting goes well, there may be backlash.
Reagarding people who shoot off their opinions with no substance to back them up...DH and I call them "the fear demons," after an episode of (don't laugh!) "Buffy the Vampire Slayer." In this episode, Buffy and her friends encountered a fear demon who played on all of their biggest fears, and the more afraid they became, the more power the demon had over them. When they finally decided to overcome their fears and realize that they did not have to succumb to them, the discovered that the demon was actually the size of a little doll. It stood in the middle of the floor squeaking in a tiny little voice, "I am the fear demon! Fear me!" And they just laughed at it.
In the ministry, we have a tendency to let people who talk big have power over us. People with big paychecks who are faithful tithers and threaten to withdraw their support if we make them mad. People who say bad things about us behind our backs. Even people who challenge our very character and integrity. But they only have power over us if we let them. If we don't let them have that mental and emotional power over us, then they become tiny little squeaky "fear demons"...we recognize that the devil is using them to play on our fears and insecurities and rather than having a problem with them personally, we can rebuke the devil and the damage that he is trying to do to our ministry!!
You have put into words here what I have been saying to dh lately. (Disclaimer: Remember I've got fresh wounds I'm dealing with.) I've been saying to dh that the family who has come against us is going to have to "earn their voice" again. God's done some great things in our situation though. He has fought the battles & we are the winners. This family was supposed to be on our "Vision Team" w/ the new church revitalization program we are going through. They pulled themselves out. Dh was needing to remove the wife from church treasurer & get the post office box key from the husband-- they gave it up themselves. Our next prayer is about worship leader as their daughter is our current worship leader. Our praise & worship is dead, no wonder from the attitudes coming from them. I am confident that God will take care of this as well. Through all of the problems the last couple of weeks, dh has said that if this one or two families leave, the church will hurt financially. I have the peace that God is going to take care of us. After all, we will soon have 2 new church vans that have been GIVEN to us.
The one couple who has sided w/ the other family believe their tithe money has earned them the right to have control in the church. Of course, they MAY come to 1 of 3 services a week, no "extracurricular activities" involved. I say, take their money (because they must not see it as God's anyway) and go somewhere else. God will continue to provide any needs. ( of course, I'm trying to remember that I shouldn't wish these kind of people on another pastor.)
I just came from a funeral for a 17 month old baby girl. I had told myself for 2 weeks that I was going to go next door & visit her & her parents. I didn't. Church "mess" (not business but the mess that we have going through) had me distracted and I never made it over. I realized that LIFe & DEATH are what matters. Not all this other stuff. Puppetmaster, I'm tired of letting these other people have power over me. I'm not letting them anymore.
And by the way, the people that do work really hard and never complain, they are starting to speak out. And it is a wonderful thing. I've learned, that when we allow God to fight our battles, He will win. We will win.
Everything you are saying is right on. You know, Puppetmaster, when you said about people not being willing to help you with the kids program but telling you how to run it...that's exactly what I, mean.
I am really to the point in my life where if I don't want to do something I just ignore it...as far as this subject goes. (Not with everything of course!) But if people like this say, "you should do this" or "you should do that" or "what about this?" I simply ignore it. I listen or respond to those who have time invested into the actual work of the ministry. Anybody can armchair quarterback something. I'm not interested in their opinions or input if that's all they are doing.
I have someone who often wants to give input within one of the ministries I lead, but they would not take an official role if asked (too busy, too "overwhelmed", yada yada yada) but they seem to want to have a voice. I am simply not going to give somebody a voice who doesn't have a real investment. I think some people think because they have been saved a certain amount of time, or because they are in a leader's family within the church, or something, that this automatically gives them a voice. But it doesn't. At least not with me! I pretty much give ear to workers - period.
You are right Trace - about your situation - focus on what's really important. Life and death issues certainly are top priority.
The type of people that we are talking about here really get on my nerves. It is amazing how people who have never done something can somehow think that they know how to do it perfectly. Yet, in spite of their expertise, they are not willing to help make it happen. They are only willing to tell others what to do, and will only do that when it is convenient for them.
I also agree with what Deanna said, I will listen to those who do not work, but it normally goes in one ear and out the other. I feel like if they don't care enough to get involved, then I am not listening to what they have to say.
As far as decisions being made, I will tell people the truth. Normally the decisions are made whatever meeting, which they chose not to attend. This is a very big problem in small churches. They think that if we are going to go to BJ's instead of Sam's club that we have to have a meeting and vote about it. Such a waste of time!
This is a very big problem in small churches. They think that if we are going to go to BJ's instead of Sam's club that we have to have a meeting and vote about it. Such a waste of time!
LOL!!! How true...And they talk it to death, too. Like an itemized list of everything available at BJ's vs. Sam's Club, the $.05 difference in price between the two, and the parking availability at one vs. the other. Just pray no one brings up Costco to throw another iron in the fire .
.
