On the flip side of candidating and interviewing- what do you all think:
Before coming here, Craig and I candidated at a church in Chicago for an associate position at a very prestigious church with an awesome pastor. They flew us in, picked us up and we LITERALLY jumped headfirst into the interview process. It became obvious VERY quickly that they were head over heels with Craig… and I can understand that- Craig is VERY charismatic, anointed, has a TON of energy, is prophetic in nature, and a dynamic man of God… he carries it with him wherever he goes. They were on the edge of their seat with him, pulling on him. However, I was alerted from the get go on a few key issues:
1.) The pastor's wife was not present for ANY of the interviewing/candidating process, although she did have lunch with us an hour before we flew out. The associate pastor was there the entire time- however, his wife was not as well, so I am the sole woman in the interview- and at dinner.
2.) Each time I managed to get a word in edgewise, it was like I got a brief acknowledgement but no response. Furthermore, all questions I was asked were extremely non-ministerial, like… "what are your children's ages," "do you think you'd like Chicago?", etc…
3.) When Craig tried to pull into the conversation how well we worked as a team and what my giftings were, etc… the pastor began to say they couldn't afford to pay me a salary too, etc.. (I finally jumped in and said, "Look, I am not looking for a salary right now, I just want an opportunity to walk out my destiny in Christ with my husband. I am willing to work as hard as anyone else salary or not. I believe God desires us to have a team ministry mentality and I know that as long as I am serving Him He will see that I am taken care of." To which he said, "Thank you that takes a lot of pressure off of me."
4.) The PW and other apws were not in any visible active role at church on Sunday- as a matter of fact, many of them did not even sit with their husbands.
It has become increasingly apparent to me that as a woman called into ministry- you can take a look at the desire of the pastor's wife in the church and know whether or not you will have opportunity. You see, I believe in headship and I know that the women in my church can go as high as I have gone while under my leadership. The anointing flows from the head down, so when I saw a PW not involved as I desired to be- and knew I was called to be- I KNEW it would never work. It was difficult- but Craig turned down an almost six figure salary package because we knew that although Craig could flourish in ministry and the financial NON-pressure would have been AWESOME after two very difficult years- it would not work for us. We had an ever present check in our spirits…
When the pastor called to talk, Craig explained it to him. He was apologetic and said he had been trying desperately for years to have his wife take on more of a role in ministry- but she had been hurt and she was a diabetic or something, and, and, and….. But like I said- it was an obvious pattern in their staff- and I've been in ministry long enough to know that those patterns are not easily changed- I believed I would have been expected to "mold" into the norm… the Pastor said that I could have opportunities but like I said, I KNOW this row... Mother (PW) sets the tone and pace for the other women... and I would NEVER cross that line...
What do you all think about this? Agree, disagree? This is simply my opinion from what I've picked up on in places and situations I have been in… I would NEVER expect Craig to interview a candidate for ministry at our church alone- of COURSE I'd be there! We are a TEAM- furthermore, we compliment one another- he has strengths I don't have, and vice versa… And to add to it all, I know who I am in Christ and I know what I am capable of in Him and to sit and shelf it after graduating Bible College, and being licensed and ordained and working as hard and right alongside other men and women for over thirteen years- wow- I couldn't do it… BUT know that I DID tell Craig, "Baby, if God is saying it is a YES- I'm there- and I will follow you to the ends of the earth- we are one no matter where we go…" and I then just let go and let God…
I want to hear from you all on this issue…. What do you think?
I can sure relate to this one! I think this is a lesson most of us learn in the trenches of ministry! We pastored a very traditional church in Tennessee and when we left we were both determined not to go anywhere where the team concept of ministry was not celebrated. It was very draining to change a mentality that had been there since the 30's!
I also know there is great wisdom in realizing that if the pastor's wife is not highly involved it is difficult or impossible to be under her leadership in a more involved capacity. Feelings of jealousy and insecurity can often surface. I know in the past I have sometimes dealt with wishing I was the sweet and gentle pastor's wife I saw growing up but I realize that is not who God made me to be.
There is great liberty in being free to be yourself in the ministry AND in not feeling surrounded by people that are threatened by your calling and giftings. We are planting a church now and I love the freedom of building my own job description!
Tara, we've known each other long enough for you to know what I think on this and more, but for others reading...I completely agree with you. If Mama's not doing it, the other women in the house probably won't. Example isn't everything, it's the ONLY thing.
You made the right decision, obviously. You would have been forever expected to "dumb down" for lack of a better phrase -- to a different level of who you really are. You are not a sideline sitter...you are a powerful pastor, preacher, teacher, exhorter in your own right, right up there with Craig and for you to have to constantly supress that to fit into the mold there would have just slowly killed your spirit. You would have probably left there very broken and hurting at some point. The call of God that is burning within someone cannot be surpressed for long without bad consequences. I had to do it one time for 8 months and I was the SPW, however it was never modeled there and they expected me to fit another mold. It was tragic. It took me a while to heal from that.
Larry has been offered other positions, as you are aware of, that would have been much larger, prestigious and as you mention happened to you -- he had an offer for a 6 figure salary before but they made it clear - my being a pastor on staff would not have been a welcome thing. He asked them right there...take his name off the list! You have to stick with your core values.
I have often said, this isn't just something I feel an "opinion" about...partnering isn't just something to me that is a concept, a "way" of doing things, a hobby or what not...to me it is LIFE. It's not just something I would die for, it's what I'm living for every day. So to take that away from me - I would rather die.
Honestly, if I could not preach the gospel, during any season of my life -- I simply would not want to live anymore.
This is a core value. How can we possibly choose anything else if we are one that the fire of God burns within to fulfill His call no matter what the cost? To me this is the mark of a true disciple.
Love you, go girl!!!!
Deanna
p.s. I ate a cuban sandwich for you today at lunch.
That is one of the hard things about where we are at. And I NEVER get to sit with my husband at church. It takes some a while to figure out he's even married. And my pw never sits with her husband. We sit out in th eaudience after choir is dismissed. THey sit on the platform. We are trying to get Lisa Bevere in 2006, but other than her we have never had a lady preach since I have been here. (5 years.) So my husband knows we iwll have to out grow our position in order for me to function with him, which is his hearts desire. And that is why I say I am a problem for our pastor. I stood up to him on a doctrinal issue and ever since then , though I did apologize for being rude, it just isnt smooth. And so I am not as involved as I would love to be. But where my husband is looking to go and do, for our ordaining ministry, there will be more of a vocal role for me. I will be working with my husband to recruit these pastors and ministers who have no covering. I will be able to voice how we can minister to the wife (which I have already been doing). So it looks promising. Is letting go of the samll church salary we make? No, but as my husband says he cant wait to be out from under thumb (pastors actual words on where he has to keep the evangelist) He said it joking but we think he was lashing out at Barak for wanting to leave.
As I was typing my phone rang and it was dh on his way home from Arkansas and telling me how excited he is about me getting to be around women in ministry and to get to really come forth and work with him. And I so appreciate him caring about what happens to me in ministry too. Not just what is good for him. God is looking out for us ladies too. He has called us and he will let our calls make room for themselves. I struggle balancing cultivating minsitry and business.
