To hear you talk is so soothing, Puppetmaster.    You just don't hear this nowadays from people in their 20's (most of them).  I am sure you realize the kind of attitudes coming out of our bible colleges today.  Just the interviews send me into a tizzy.  We interviewed one guy for YP that we had set up a month in advance to take he and his wife to a dinner/interview.  When we got to the restaurant, we said, "Where's your wife?"  He said, "Oh, she was tired.  Her feet were tired from walking around sightseeing today so I said, 'honey you just stay and rest at the hotel and I'll do the interview.'"  (These people don't have kids, BTW)  So, we promptly nixed this young man off of our list of candidates.  Interview was over at that point. 

I realize that people do go through things, and there are legitimate excuses, but I guess dh and I have been burned a lot because quite frankly, my hubby is a nice guy.  He doesn't slave drive anyone but at the same time, he has expectations.  He feels, because he is such a nice guy it should never be taken advantage of.  We had one staff member that I used to tell dh:  "He doesn't just push the envelope, he owns the stationary store!"  (ha ha!)  It was like if dh gave him an inch, he took 5 miles.

I am not finding many people with the work ethic that you have, Puppetmaster.  It's very rare.  You have something special, and I know you will be in ministry for the long haul.  (For life)

We have heard a lot about staying home for tired kids, headaches, sniffles, being "overwhelmed,"  etc. etc. etc.  (I have taken the word "overwhelmed out of my vocab.  I never, ever say it anymore regarding myself because even if I would have a bad week - I would never want to be compared to those women who are always whining and throwing around that they are overwhelmed and can't do such and such...)  It all just seems silly to me in light of the fact that just like you, I have weathered many storms and kept right on.  Through family tragedies, deaths, miscarriage, having several operations, having babies, raising babies, church problems, etc. etc. etc.  I never once thought of saying, "oops, we can't do ministry right now."  I can't ever remember a time standing in our Sr. Pastor's office giving an excuse.  Even when I had a tumor removed from my throat (back when I was a music pastor of all things -- bad operation to have when you are a music person)  anyway - though I couldn't lead worship for months and I had to even be totally silent, I STILL WENT TO CHURCH.  People knew I couldn't speak.  But I came, played the keyboard each service for the lay-person who filled in for me, was there for the sermon, even hugged on and greeted the people physically though I could not speak for several weeks straight.  Today, your "average" pastor or spouse coming out in ministry would just say to their pastor, "I can't speak, I won't be at church for a few weeks."  I am not kidding that back at that time, THAT THOUGHT NEVER EVEN CROSSED MY MIND.  I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT SOMEBODY WERE FROM MARS TO TO SUGGEST IT. 

With many of the candidates we interviewed for staff positions in the past, they candidly told us that when they or their spouse are pregnant, they generally stop coming to church altogether on Sunday nights and just stay home and sleep.  (We didn't hire those who said that, obviously.)  But thank God they were honest in the interview.  Had they ended up here they would have gotten under my skin the whole time, at least while they were pregnant.

It just seems like many of our bible colleges are graduating people with little work ethic and whiny spouses who expect the world but invest little into the life of the church.  My dh often says, "they don't make 'em like they used to."  It has taken us seven months just to get a children's pastor candidate that we are comfortable with.  That should tell you something.

We have a former staff member that when dh would confront them about expectations, etc. he would remind them, "this isn't how it works in the REAL WORLD."  In other words, just because your wife has a little headache, you can't run home.  Just because Johnny has an earache doesn't mean you don't come to church on time, etc. etc.  Just because your wife has the flu doesn't mean you are home from work for a week.  He would tell dh, "Well, that's how the real world SHOULD be."  You know, we can all think of an idyllic world where when we get sick we could all just take a month off, when our spouse is under the weather we can just nix all our obligations and forget about them.  That's a dream world, not a real one.  Just because we are a church doesn't mean we just throw all expectations out the window.

BTW Puppetmaster, I love the Maya Angelou quote, that's good.  I'll have to use it.  I have thought the same thing so many times.  Women have been having babies forever.  IT'S NOT AN ILLNESS.  You know, women in the "olden days" would be working out in the field, pop a baby out and just keep on working.  I didn't quite do that...I did take a week to acclimate with each of mine...I had them and a week later was back to church (even back to platform ministry, etc.).  I think today's (immature) woman is looking for any excuse to live the prima donna life.  It's not just with young or inexperienced staff, but I see it in some church women.

The other day dh and I were talking about a church woman who doesn't want to invest in anything in the life of her family or church.  Her kids are in school FT now. She wants to stay home and do nothing.  No, I don't mean she wants to be Martha Stewart or Suzie Homemaker, far from it.  She has no inclinations to cook, clean or the like.  The goal is - live in a fine home, have someone else clean it, eat meals out, not work outside her home, do nothing in the church.  Basically her husband works so many overtime hours killing himself just to meet their bills.  (or should I say HER bills?)  The same woman forever whines about not feeling well, reasons she wasn't at church, reasons she can't commit to anything, etc.  It just makes me shake my head and say, "What in the world are you on this earth for?"  I know this sounds harsh, but I truthfully she no reason why this woman lives.  It's the epitome of the "me" generation. 

Most PW's can't afford to do that, but i do see a lot of the younger more inexperienced ones who "try" to live like the woman I just described to whatever degree they can, only they usually don't make it.  (Their husband leaves the ministry because even in the best paid of ministry positions you still can't achieve that lifestyle.)  I have seen many a man ruined by a wife like that.  Oh well, that would bring us to a whole other topic, so I'll shut up for now.  (Only for now!) 

By the way, it's so beautiful here today -- I wish you could be here with me enjoying this Florida sunshine.  After I finish polishing off some messages today I think I'll go for a walk. 

Love you all,

Deanna

Okay, my response may not be popular, but I have to be honest. I have been a staff person and now my husband and I are pastoring, although we do not currently have full time staff members. I think that there is fault to be found on both sides of this issue. I think that oftentimes staff members think that because work for the church they should have more flexibility than the average employee at a secular company. I do not think that this should be the case. I believe in giving 100% everything that I do, especially to the church and the building the kingdom of God.

On the other hand, I also think Senior Pastors can be unreasonable. If someone were applying for a job at XYZ corporation, it would be illegal in a job interview to ask them if they plan to have kids, and if they do what do they plan to do. Because of discrimination laws, you cannot ask these questions. I understand that it is different with ministry, but I don't think that it is fair to expect someone without kids to be able to give you a detailed plan as to what they will do when they have kids. Before I had kids I had no idea what it is like. I thought I did, but now that I have two, I realize that I really did not. With this in mind, if I tell my potential employer what my plan is when I have children, and then once I have them that plan changes, they are going to be upset with me. I don't think that is fair. I guess what I am saying is that all sides have to be considered.

I do not advocate letting the ministry decline because you are transitioning to a new stage in life, most definitely not. I currently work a full time secular job, working on my master's degree in seminary, I have a 6 an a 7 year old, and I am extremely active with my husband in ministry. I am obviously not a slacker or a wife that stays home over a headache or cramps. When my kids tell me that they are too tired or sick to go to church (which is rare), I tell them to go and get the oil so that I can pray over them. Unless we are going to the ER, we are going to church. That is how I was raised, and that is how I am raising my children. However, I remember when my husband and I first got married. We had much more time for ministry than we have now. We did not have to do homework every night with our kids. We did not have to go to PTA meetings and science fairs. I did not have to spend 6 hours on some Saturdays to wash and style my hair and both of my girls hair because I cannot afford for all 3 of us to go to the hair salon. (My oldest daughter has Diana Ross hair) When I was single or newly married, I did not realize that all of this would need to be done.

I was in seminary when I got pregnant with my oldest daughter and I was so sick (I was in the hospital for a month) that I had to drop out. It was my plan to have my master's degree completed before we had children, but God intervened on that one. This obviously put a wrinkle in my plans, but it didn't stop me. I once I got out of the hospital and got back on my feet, I was back to doing what I had been doing as far as ministry is concerned. Even though I was throwing up the rest of the pregnancy I could not just sit at home watching TV on Sunday or any other time that we had church. If I were interviewing someone for a staff position and they were to say that they would stay home or tell their spouse to stay home because they are tired or pregnant, that would automatically X them off of my list. That is ridiculous. I am tired all the time, but I have things I must do. Unfortunately many people these days do not have a strong work ethic.

To answer another one of your questions, I do not think that I would automatically talk to the staff person about expectations just because they announce a change in life stage. IMHO, I would wait until they show some signs that they need to be reminded of what is expected of them.

One more thing I forgot to say is I also think that the church IS differnet than a regular employment situation. you are not hiring someone to sweep floors. You are hiring them to minister---to give something out of their spirit. And if they are experiencing something that is making that hard (wether YOU deem it a big deal or not) then it may make MINISTRY hard. I can sweep floors sick. I can go through the MOTIONS of ministry sick. But it is hard to really minister sick . It takes determination and passion that maybe these people especially the ladies have not tapped into yet. Instead of repremanding them or presenting them with a bunch of expectations they may get alot more out of your wisdom and experience of pushing thru. You must keep in mind you are still pastoring your staff. And you are still growing too. We are all in this together. I was going thru a hard thing several months ago with my body (still am) and had abig fight with dh over something and it hurt me more than it did him and he came on to church and did what he was supposed to do. But even though I came, I had nothing to give. I was genuinely hurting. I needed God to minister to ME. And He did. But before I walked away from the altar, pastor came up and asked if he could pray with me. I said no I am fine. I was not about to tell him we were fighting over him being too hard and inconsiderate and that I fought with dh before church. I didnt think he needed to know that at that moment! BUt when i said no he said look you are a minister's wife. You cant bring that kind of heaviness into the church. People are watching you. I see his point. But it is a pastors point. Mine is church is still for me too. I do not cease to be human just becasue I am in ministry. And people are going to watch me, they are going to watch me be human and real. I was at a point with it at that point of pastor couldnt understand I was trying to atleast wait till I got to altar to cry. He has no mercy even on his wife. She even said so to me. He thinks there is no place for emotion. It is weakness. (He is a former college ball coach) Pastors arent the only ones who get burned. Poeple leave becuase they genuinely cant communicate with the pastor. Pastors dont realize they get into thinking like that. That there way is the only way.

Cassandra

Cassandra,

I thought of something else...perhaps that would shed some light on where I am coming from.  As I looked back and thought over all our situations in ministry for the last 18 years, dh and I have never dealt with a staff member having their very first child.  I never realized that until now.  We only had one real young staff member previous who had one baby already when they came on staff but quite honestly they were really a team player and we never had a problem with them.  Everybody else we have had has already had children when they came on staff with us and in some cases, several children. 

I can understand what you mean about a person not knowing what to expect when they have never had a child.  I was thinking about your post and started thinking through the list of anyone we've ever worked with and suddenly realized we have always dealt with people who have been parents for a at least a couple years or so, minus that one couple I mentioned...

I can see what you mean about somebody brand new to parenting needing a little bit to get their balance and see how to do things.  I'm not talking about that in relation to my illustrations about the kids.  I'm talking about people who have been parents a while and some of them who have 3 and 4 kids.   When I give illustration about someone saying they are pregnant, sometimes it scares me because I see that they already have one or more children and so because of the way they handle it the ministry is suffering, and then when they say...they are adding even more children... I imagine it's going to be even worse.

In the case of families, what do you do when you have somebody who has been going for years, but just not gotten it together? 

I am not dealing with this situation right now with staff members we currently have.  But since we are looking at hiring a new staff member this month it is really on my mind.  Let me share with you something I went through that sort of shapes me on this issue...

We had an assistant pastor at our previous church that was a huge mistake for us to bring on staff.  We regretted it terribly almost immediately.  (Right now he is out of ministry and he and his wife are divorced.)  When we interviewed them things looked peachy.  He had ABOVE a 4.0 in bible college.  He seemed like a real people person.  It didn't even take a month to see we were headed for disaster.  I don't know how he ever kept a 4.0 in school.  In "real life" ministry there was such a lack of work ethic but it was mainly because his wife was so needy and disorganized.  When they came on staff, they had two boys, who were pre-schoolers.   Some days his wife was so disorganized she could not even manage to get dressed.  We required absolutely no evening hours of him beyond the Wed. night service.  He worked 9 am - 4 pm at the church office during the week.  We had no Sun. night service.  He was home with his family after 4 pm every day but Wed.  His wife would call NON-STOP.  Beg him to come home.  Say she couldn't handle the boys.  Cry.  Bemoan that they didn't have family time.  (Note:  he never did visitation one time he was with us...we had NONE of these type of expectations, PERIOD.)  Bottom line, it wasn't even what you would consider a "real" ministry schedule like those of us on this board keep, but even having her husband work these few hours just put her over the edge.  I think she thought because he worked for "the church" he would be accessible 24/7 and her life would be so much easier.  She was a FT stay at home Mom but could not handle the house, the boys, nothing.  It was a disaster.  One time she asked me, "will you please mentor me?"  I said, "I would be glad to."  I was delighted she asked and thought, "great, she's teachable.  Let's get started."  So I scheduled times for her to meet with me.  I suggested 11 am on Tues mornings, thinking that would give her enough time to get ready and meet with me.  That's how I found out she did not get dressed and up and around most days.  She told me she wouldn't be able to be showered and dressed and meet me by 11 am.  No way she could handle that.  One time we had a pastor's dinner for those in the area at 5 pm and she told me she couldnt even manage to be ready by 5 pm, with all it took her to take care of the boys.  (It wasn't like these were newborns or in diapers or something.)  Several times we had times scheduled (various times) for me to meet with her but she always cancelled at the last minute saying she couldn't get it together enough to make it to the meeting.  When they first came to the church she sang on the worship team and helped her husband a little bit in his ministry area.  But after a few months she had to drop out of everything because she "couldn't handle it."  I welcomed that decision because she was always letting down ministry leaders in the church who were extremely frustrated with her dropping the ball so many times. 

Well, things were already bad enough with the two kids they had that she could not handle.  I often told my dh, "If "Jessica" (not her real name) ever tells me she is pregnant with #3, I think I will have a nervous breakdown!!!!!"  I couldn't imagine how much WORSE this could get!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Already with 2 kids she called her dh about 10 times a day.  My dh finally had to tell him unless it was absolute emergency and the house was on fire, he should only get a minimum of maybe one "thinking of you" type call a day, or something real quick, because literally he was on the phone with her non-stop and what little time we did have him working 9-4, it was mostly eaten up with being on the phone with her about the fact that "Johnny wouldn't take a nap"... or "Teddy won't eat his Golden Grams" or whatever.  I would have gladly advised her on things like this and helped her learn what to do if your children won't take a nap or won't eat, etc. etc.  I would have been ever so glad to help her but honestly each time I tried, it was always cancelled because she "couldnt' handle it."

Dh finally came to the point where he told him, "I am giving you one more chance.  I have talked to you time and time again asking you to make changes, and you have not.  If the following things happen one more time, I am going to have to let you go."  I think her husband knew it would not change.  For it to change, his wife would have to change and I believe he knew she would not.  He did not want to be let go, so about a month later he came to my dh and resigned of his own decision.  They muddled along in their marriage for a few years and are now divorced.  We did try to help them in their marriage, in fact we marriage counseled them several times but they never moved toward any active change.

You might think this sounds drastic but we have found a lot of young couples like this in ministry where they just could not manage basic life's tasks.  If a husband has a wife who is like this, they cannot get much done.  I believe one of the best things a wife can do for her husband when he is in ministry and she is a SAHM is to effectively handle the kids while he is doing church ministry.  (No, not to the extreme, overtime, etc. I am talking about just regular working office hours, even.)  I know it probably sounds silly to you all because you can't imagine calling your husbands because your kid won't eat his cereal and ask him to come home.   You wouldn't believe what my husband has been told by staff.  He has gotten everything from:  "i have to go home...Jessica can't get Johnny to let her get him dressed.  He's throwing a tantrum..."  to "Jessica needs my help.  Teddy won't take a bath."  To..........ready for this one?  "I have to go home.  Jessica sees a spider on the kitchen counter and she's afraid to kill it." 

I know you might be laughing right now really hard.  Well, it just gets really old to be in the above type situations.  We have never had anything as bad as that situation in our previous church but we have seen varying degrees of this.  And all from people who have been parents at least a few years.  In one case, we heard, "Well, of course we have many more demands now because we have all these kids."  And my husband's question was, "whose choice was it to have all these kids???"  I mean, you know how much work kids are.  If you know your wife can't already handle the two you have, why go on to have three, four, five, etc...  without making sure you use protection each and every time? (I would be more understanding in my thinking if they had these kids without planning to, but in our cases they were all because of lack of responsibility...)

I know, I know...you probably can't relate to any of this and it sounds like a bad sitcom or movie to you....but trust me I have lived it.  Truth is stranger than fiction.

Love you all, thanks for letting me talk out my fears...

Deanna

When my dh ws teaching High School and coaching football and track I never saw him. when we were called into the ministry and he began pastoring I see him a whole lot more and it has spoiled me. I can call him at any point. He helps me if I need him but the hardest part is remembering that he is at work.

when we were at our first church ,the people didn't want him around a lot. They had the mentality of go to church on Sunday and I 'll see you next Sunday not during the week. There was no staff except the parttime music director and he had to fight her to even have a staff meeting.

Whne we came here I had to realize that I couldn't have him all to myself anymore. We sat down and wrote out a schedule and expectations and we reevaluate those often as needed. In order for me to handle the home front and minister at church also I go back to our "football days" and say ok this is game day and he isn't available for me. I have had to reevaluate how much I lean on him and in turn it releases him to do what He is a called to do. The funny thing is now he comes to me when he needs me because he knows I'm handling the changes. Cool huh?

The reason I say all this is sometimes other staff who haven't went through life changes as we "old Salts" have don't know what to do or how to cope or react. It seems that a lot of younger people don't know how to multitask because they are taught to handle one thing at a time. Like for instance ,Some people at church are always telling me ..how do you get here on time with you and 5 children ,teach Sunday school,be in the choir , pray with someone hurting and be smiling? Because I know that life doesn't stop because something changed.
To answer the question of how to deal with things maybe you can be proactive and not reactive. Tell them when you hire them
" Ok we know that you are going to go through things that we have already been through like having babies ,marriages, etc. We want to be able to celebrate these with you as staff and brothers and sisters. As these things happen in your lives we will sit down with you and reevaluate your job discription and see how we can make life both productive and beneficial for you ,your family and the church that you are here to minister too. " This way you have touched on these things before they occur and they will know they can come to you and say Guess what ...such and such is happening in our lives.
This way they will know that you care and that it's not just a job but a team ,a family.
I hope I have made sense.
Love Ralinda

I agree Puppetmaster, balancing so neither are neglected is very important.  My dh often makes the point that years ago, it was the family that got the short end of the stick.  You had lots of PK's decades ago who were hurt by the fact that their pastor parent or parents weren't around...some even traveling out on the road or not being there most of the time and justifying it by saying they were doing God's work.  It's understandable how many of those kids are very hurt, scarred and some not even Christians.

But what followed in the 90's is a swing to the other extreme where some people in ministry in response to those old abuses of the past went to a lifestyle where family was now #1 to the point where ministry was truly neglected.  It seems like the mantra that you hear from everyone today is "family time" and usually they throw that out when they are ready to tell you what they "can't do" as far as expectations.  Dh had one staff member at one time tell him that he didn't want to have office hours, because he needed "family time."  This person was being paid a very generous FT salary.  That's just unrealistic, and would never happen in the "real world."  IBM or Capital One would say, "we will give you all the family time you need...this is your last day."

I think we did need to make the shift toward more family time, but not to the extreme that the church suffers or we use it as an excuse every time we don't feel like doing something those in authority have asked us to do.  I also believe the expectations of the church are not at all the same expectations of the SP.  The staff does not answer to the church, or even the board - they answer to the pastor.  My husband would never allow church members to tell any of our staff what to do or place expectations upon them, but as not only their pastor but their "boss" - he does have a right to have job descriptions and expectations. 

He has seen the big shift over the past 10-15 years where we have gone from no family time and abuse of the family big time, to now a place where people think if you are requiring anything of them you are somehow encroaching upon their family.  There has to be a balance.  I think if, like Puppetmaster, people are genuinely wanting to find that balance, they will.  I think you have to be flexible.

In our case, we take a day off each week, no question, and require our staff to do the same.  We have a general rule for ourselves that we don't take any more than one more evening meeting a week aside from Sun/Wed night church.  This means we are together as a family 4 out of 7 nights a week which is certainly the majority.  We are flexible in that it's different during revival week or such where we have revival for 4 nights.  (2 being regular church nights, so that means 1 more night a week.)  I don't do counseling in the evenings nor does dh.  We refuse to.  People take off work to go to the doctor, dentist, etc.  If it's that important they will take a personal hour and come see us during the day.  If they won't we refer them out.  Our "one meeting night a week" is usually for leadership meetings, church events on a weeknight, trainings, etc.

When one of our kids has a special school event or something if it would conflict with time we usually work, we may switch our day off so we can be with them at their event, but work another day so we are not missing time we need to invest in the ministry of the church as well.

I think if we want to find the balance, and we constantly seek it, then we are not given to going extreme one way or the other.  But it's when we either don't care, or we have an extreme either way that something does indeed get neglected.

Love you all,

me

Thank you, Tara.  My word, you're making me tear up here. 

I agree with you - sons and daughters that is what it's all about.  In previous situations we had them to a greater extent because we grew them from square one...know what I mean?  It's so different to come into a church situation with already existing staff or where you are hiring people from the outside.  We are trying now as much as possible to home grow our staff but we are just approaching 3 years here and still in process with that.  Some positions need to be filled now, and we can't wait until people we are training now mature to that level...in other words, the position can't wait to be filled for several years. 

You have spoken my heart exactly.  Larry and I were always sons/daughters as well and had an extreme heart for the church, even when we were not the lead pastor.  We did "whatever it took", burned the midnight oil, did more than we were asked, always.  Gave more than expected.  Our pastors always had to tell us, "please slow down."  (Not the other way around.)  Yes, it was how we got paid, but it was not a job to us, the call was EVERYTHING.  It burned within us.  We didn't allow, or God forbid seek to find "life happenings" that would allow us to stop responding to the call.  Just as you and Craig, we did whatever we had to do at the time to follow the call.  I can remember when my kids were babies, I never slept when they did during the day.  Those were the prime time hours for me to do my church work.  Although I was tired, I viewed those hours as "gifts from God" to continue my ministry and also be faithful to mothering.  Today when I suggest that to younger pw's who have babies and say they don't have time to spend on church ministry I say, "What about using the hours that the baby sleeps?"  They usually say that's when they want to sleep.  I say, "well it's a choice.  I was tired too, but pressed beyond and used those hours as precious gifts from God."  That was when I did all of my writing, planning, preparing teachings/sermons, ministry phone calls, etc.  The thing is, when you are not burning with the call, you don't want to take that time to do that.  You want to sleep, lay down and watch Oprah, or do whatever.  I have found there is a price to be paid to answer the call in all seasons.  For me, it means when my kids were babies, I had to use every speck of the time they were sleeping or otherwise occupied during the day to get ministry tasks done.  When they went to sleep early at night, I used the two hours or so before my own bedtime to do the same thing -- ministry work.  Every Mom has this time.  Her kids do have to nap sometime.  What we choose to do with those hours is up to us.  Even a 30 minute nap gives you time.  I can do a whole lot in 30 minutes!!!  During the time my kids were very small, I watched no TV.  If I was going to fulfill the call I had no time.  I couldn't tell you any TV shows that were on during that time period except 60 minutes.  I would tape it sometimes and watch it at night while I nursed.  Because I really like news shows like that.  But other than that, I had to give up TV, napping, or things that didn't make a difference for the Kingdom.  I realize it's people's choice if they do not want to give up things like that to minister during every season of life.  But don't use the excuse, "I don't have the time."  We all do what we really want to do.  When we want it bad enough, we make time.  The truth is, we CHOOSE what we do.  I would just rather people really be honest and say, "I am not willing to give up extra things in order to minister at this time." 

I think part of what we are talking about here is sacrifice.  Recently I was at a PW retreat where we were in a group session talking and a few PW's shared that they recently quit everything in their church becuase they were burned out.  But around the tables eating I notice those same women talked about what's happening with Survivor, American Idol, sales at the mall, etc. etc. etc.  So I am thinking...you do not have time to do church ministry and yet you have time to watch Survivor, Idol and keep up with all the sales.  Really they did have time, it's just they chose to use it on something else.  I have realized that if you are going to rise to a higher place in the Lord and in ministry it does take living differently than 99.9% of women have chosen to live.  Example:  I do personal pursuits...each week.  Now I watch things I have "tivo'd" (what a God-send it is!), I do shop, I go to movies, etc.  But I personally have myself disciplined that if all of my ministry goals are not accomplished for that week, I do not shop.  I do not go to the movies.  I do not sit down and watch TV.  Self discipline is important.  There are times Larry has all his work done.  He will be sitting down watching something and say, "honey do you want to watch this with me?"  Many times I have to say, "Larry I am not able to tonight.  I have a project that has yet to be finished that I have given myself the deadline of tomorrow for."  In other words, I do not need someone else looking over my shoulder to keep me on schedule.  Self discipline is so important in ministry because if we don't have it, we really can become lazy.

Pastor Tara, I find that what we are missing today are young people that have the son/daughter mentality and the true burning call of God, plus an unwillingness to sacrifice those things that one needs to, in order to fulfill the call of ministry in all seasons.  In other words, if we have to give up TV, no.  If we have to give up finances, no.  If we have to give up shopping as much as we want to, no.  If we have to give up taking naps when the baby naps, no.  There are not many these days that will be "inconvenienced" for the sake of fulfilling the call...as my grandmother used to say:  "denying our small comforts so that God's greater good can be achieved..."

It's the "sons and daughters" we are having trouble finding.  Question for you Pastor Tara -- do you believe it's possible to find a son/daughter who comes from outside the church (already in ministry from somewhere else) or do you think an effective one is always raised up within the house?  I am curious.  I never thought of it until now but come to think of it I have never really seen a son/daughter type staff member unless they did come up through the ranks in the house.  Hmmmmm...

Love you...could talk to you forever...but I've got more work to do...(it's that self-discipline thing again...)

Love you,

Deanna

One of the many reasons DH and I have, as of yesterday, given up cable tv.  It's hard...I've had cable all my life (it really is an addiction!), but we decided that if our goals are to really follow our callings from God, then we need to cut some expen$e$ out of our lives.  Plus, I have a tendency to waste way too much time flipping channels looking for something.  Now, with only about 20 channels instead of, like 500, it will only take me about 5 minutes instead of 1/2 hour to figure out that nothing's on worth watching .  I'm really only going to miss the Food Network.  Rachael Ray is one of my personal heroes!!  But that's the only channel anymore that is "safe" to have on as background noise, where I know nothing offensive is going to come on...so we're saving ourselves a bunch of money and moving closer to where we need to be ministry-wise!

In answer to your question, Deanna, I truly believe that the best people to have in ministry are the ones who have been DOING ministry!  Whether they're fresh out of college or not, it's important that as soon as they feel the call from God, they plant themselves in a church and get busy ministering.  That way, when they do get hired on FT or PT, they know what to expect.  Whether they're "home-grown" or "transplanted," they need to have already been doing something other than taking college courses on HOW to minister! 

You are not rambling at all!  Please don't apologize, I understood everything you were saying and also your heart on the matter.

You are so right.  Many are not spiritual parents these days - there is a great shortage.  I believe many times when a spiritual parent-team comes into the picture and people have not had it before, they do not know what to do.  They are not used to being parented, so they do not know what to do when it presents itself -- unless (like you) they are actually seeking it.

I know the Lord will fulfill the desire of your heart in both having the spiritual parent you need, and in turn become such to many other people.  I realize you need someone up close and personal but realize we are all here for you as a sounding board or anything else you need on line anytime!

We love you,

d