A lil brain picking here.....

cassandra · Status: Offline

A lil brain picking here.....

TwoAsOne · Status: Offline

Great question. We have always been more on the poorer side until recently. However, three kids in private school, uniforms, and books still makes it about "the same"...poorer. We don't own a house and our cars are old. What $ we do save is for our retirement because at mid-life, dh has become more and more concerned for our last years. Money to go out to eat or entertainment has never been there. I shared all this to say that we haven't been able to do all the things you mentioned for our kids either.

Nevertheless, we graciously receive gently used hand-me-downs. We shop at consignment shops and thrift stores in addition to Ross dress for Less and Bealles Outlet. My baby girl has received clothes 2nd hand since she was born (1999). She's the best dressed! This is how I have solved the clothing issue.

As far as people go, there always seem to be an extreme. They either put unrealistic expectations on us that are impossible to achieve (perfection) or the "trash" us (ignoring all our virtues) and pick us to pieces on every little action or word. Finding balanced "friends" has been a God send! My personal motto is: 'All to bless. Not impress.'   I use my thoughtfulness of others and ingenuity to put folks at ease and to make them feel better having been in our presence. When I make a mistake or big blooper, I say 'my bad' and ask their forgiveness sincerely. When I do something well, I give glory to God and say: all to bless not impress!

One big plus is we live in a very nice parsonage so, we don't "look poor". The downside is that it's a setback to us in a way with no equity and not owning much material wise. These financial things bother my dh more than I. I just remodeled the parsonage into something that we could not personally afford and I try to enjoy borrowing it! (smile)   I enjoy other's "things" and I am genuinely happy for them even though I don't have much. I thank God for how I was raised because it made me content with whatever God gives and I have no debt. Sometimes I wish we were better off but we'd rather put the money into the church and see it prosper. God has blessed us through so many other ways!
PS When I remodeled the bathroom I put in a Jacuzzi tub. Randomly at Lowes one day an associate became irate over that. She said, "I wouldn't go to a church that buys a jacuzzi for their pastor." I said, "Well the pastor doesn't "keep" it ; it's not ours we just use it. The parsonage had mold and termites and a remodel had to be done anyway.". She said, " I don't care. I wouldn't go to a church if they bought their pastor a jacuzzi!"

People will always be a problem from time to time. Opinions are like noses. Everyone has one and they usually have a couple of holes in them.   Living in the glass house can be very hard! Only a goldfish can live without privacy! But after this horrible experience at Lowes, I have just truly decided not everyone should have a front row seat in our lives! Some people can't handle it. It takes God's wisdom and guidance to show us who we can trust. Meanwhile, I don't tell everyone my business (especially blessings). When I show parishoners the bath... if they say anything about the tub....I'll just say: That's our baptismal (smile).

-- Edited by TwoAsOne at 19:05, 2008-08-08

cassandra · Status: Offline

I would have wanted to smack that Lowe's associate. just being honest. :)
makes me shake my head and sonder where in the world people get these 'standards" of what a pastor can/should own and shouldn't? Doesn't make sense. Thanks for your input. We were headed to do our school shopping this morning and passed a consignment sale that was running half off. I didnt expect much cause it was a high end consignement shop and I still expected each piece to be $5-6. Nope. I spent $88 on both girls and they averaged 11 pieces each. And shoes. Everything was top name brand, like new, in style, and around $2 a piece. That's cheaper than Goodwill!!!! We were excited and then went and bought new tennis shoes at penney's (with a coupon) and now off to get new hair cuts. Just was so glad I stopped. The Lord stretched my budget there and got them several "new to them" clothes and alot more of them!

smkelly4kds · Status: Offline

Ok This is a fantastic question to ask! I have to say I get so mad when people comment about what a pastor and his family should look like, what they should live in. I mean, why do they think that Pastors should be poor and that God shouldn't bless us??? I just don't get it!
A friend of mine went through a TON of persecution about the fact that her husband bought her for thier 15th anniversary a beautiful diamond bracelet. Accused him of stealing money from the church. Little did these people know that he had been saving to buy it for 10 years!
anyway, I feel pressure too when it comes to my kids and how they dress and I dress. But there is nothing financially I can do about it. My boys the two younger ones get the hand me downs from their older brother. I have been saving and storing clothes since my oldest was born. As for my daughter she too gets hand me downs from friends! I think of it this way, I am being a good stewart with what the Lord has blessed me with. If I can make the clothing stretch for two more kids to wear FANTASTIC! If I can bless someone else when the clothes no long fit even more fantastic.
We do not own our home, we too live in a parsonage. It has a lot of work that needs to be done to it and unfortuantely we do not have the means to do all at once. So we do small things here and there. Our cars are no less than 15 year old or older for one. One has a major transmission prob so we are down to just the van which has its own problems. The money to fix them...God HAS to provide.
You know what it doesn't matter what you wear, if you wear the high end clothes and have no confidence in your self what does it matter, people notice. If you wear the consignment or even the good will stuff and have confidence, people notice!
Go in the confidence of God and He will make you shine!

TwoAsOne · Status: Offline

There's a great deal of 'peer pressure' not to tell others about my good deals but I get a thrill buying something really nice for so little and I feel like it is almost phony to "pretend" otherwise. But I am practicing being more "discreet": I can't wear my wedding rings because of water retention/weight gain from a thyroid condition. Therefore, I was going without rings but too many men were bothering me out in public. The last time was really a scare, the guy followed me to my car. So I decided to get a Wal-mart CZ that's about the size stone that I would really like. Recently we had Carman at our church and the lady at the tape table was raving over my ring. She said, "My dh has to talk with your dh! Wow! What a ring." She kept going on and on. I told her it was our 20th anniversary and it's new and I said thank you. Little did she know that I paid $10.00 at Wal-mart and she wouldn't want her dh to talk to mine!   Hee Hee.

Now I am a very open, transparent person and it is hard for me to do this but I am learning. I also have to wear a hairpiece due to my health. I get SO MANY compliments and people who say: I wish I had hair like yours! I want to say so bad - "You can. Just call 1800......  LOL! But I don't because early on (years back) I was too open about my hair and the opinions, comments, and judgments really just became too hurtful and at times embarrassing! I am learning that it's best to be discreet. I do agree with Kelly's comment re: confidence. WE need to make a promises to ourselves never to speak negatively about ourselves or present others with all our faults as opposed to just saying thank you when they give us a compliment!  We need to teach our kids this too! We need never to put ourselves down or hang around those who pick us to pieces! My kids are teens and they often ask me not to tell their friends that we live in a parsonage or don't "own" the house! But again, I feel like I need to put people at ease who live in less lovely conditions. I feel like if they know we don't own it they'll not "feel bad" or jealous that the preachers live in such a nice place! I have dealt with siblings who are very jealous/envious perhaps it has made me fearful of what people say! Just recently, I was on a postcard for a conference so I mailed it to my mother (with a note) and her roommate got on the phone and told me that I am the most vain person they know. People take things so wrong. They know nothing about advertising or PR obviously! But they judged me like that...we really do have to worry about jealousy/envy when we start being blessed! So...richer or for poorer...better or for worse....watch who you put in the front row seat of your life! Not just anybody can handle it!   Have you seen that email going around re: Front Row?

PS Kids do catch on to the "type" stores we shop at and it can become problematic but I just emphasize that we can get "more" in quantity as opposed to full price in retail. And I personally have made sure that they had a few special things in their childhood to make them feel "rich" (i.e. go cart (hand me down), pool, and one decent electronic game at least, nice vacation, etc). Even on a shoe-string budget, God has made these things possible through individuals who had it themselves to share.

-- Edited by TwoAsOne at 06:05, 2008-08-10

Autumn Rose · Status: Offline

I was reading an article the other day where it was discussing a staff member in church who loved to go bargin shopping. She would get brand names for just couple of dollars, looking brand new, and enjoy what God had given her. The author of this article at first was excited about the idea and went shopping herself. Thrilled with having a ton of clothes of her own she was thanking God when she remembered how Paul mentioned for women not to "adorn themselves". She then concluded that buying brand name clothes for cheap and wearing them around was deceptive and sinful. She decided that it was bad to flant her clothes and gave them away. She now wears general clothing with no designs, tags, etc.

I for one totally disagree with her. I do not have any children of my own at this point, but I do have many girls in the JR. High youth group who are like my daughters. Yesterday, I took one out ot lunch and she was telling me that her Aunt was going to use the money from her dad to buy clothes and school supplies for all of her 5 children. This 13 year old's father passed away last year from cancer, and had saved money up for his children in case something ever happened to him. But I know that what she was going to get was not very much, yet alone take the money and split it 5 ways. So I took her to a new Goodwill that opened up. We got her 8 pairs of pants and 7 shirts for 28 dollars, most of them were brand new, brand name, and still had tags on them! Gap, Old Navey, etc! That was wonderful!
I shop there too and have gotten myself new work clothes. There is nothing wrong with using the wisdom God gave us and applying it to every area of our lives, even more so in our finances!

Sharing my 2 cents,

~Autumn

cassandra · Status: Offline

I know what you mean about having to be discreet when god blesses you with a good deal or idea. Discretion is hard for me because I too feel this "need" to explain myself so others won't have some kind of issue with me. I want to get past this. (And the whole taking a compliment thing with out putting your self down...that could be a whole other post. ITs hard to do for me as well.)
Even after the good deals on the school supplies my van decided to overheat and have starter issues in one of our elders driveway. (Fortunately they are becoming good friends and are down to earth like us) But we werent financially prepared for this and we HAVE the money to cover it but it will put us almost broke til payday. BUT I am glad that we did barely have it. there have been way too many times it would have just had to sit a week or so. But there again, is my point. We know some (or most) of the people expect the pastor to have all his bills in order, a ton of savings, perfect vehicle maintenance, perfect lawn care, etc.....And as much as we are trying to get on top of our game....it is disheartening at times because we are NOT perfect and arent ever gonna be. But we are both pleasers and it is a strain sometimes because we want everyone to approve and soemtimes....no matter what you do or ow you dress your kids or what you live in.....it just isnt gonna happen.

Autumn Rose · Status: Offline

Even though we may strive daily to do the best with what we have, it is hard to view ourselves as "wonderful mom" or "smart shopper". It is much easier to see our short-comings and compare out failures to other's strenths. In most cases, being a people pleaser is a struggle, because no matter how much you step out, give up, and change for someone else, it is never enough. Our sermon that Pastor David Briggs preached (a fill in) was about serving others, but to remember to show ourselves approved before God and not unto men. Yes, easier said than done. To type about it is great, but to walk into church with the uneasy eyes of the congergation on you and the family is hard. Harder still, when they have dumb expectations of a pastor and his wife. Fill the purpose of God, and not the expectations of the congergation I say! *smiles* Even more so, we are here to support you, pray for you, and encourage you. Know that despite what the 50 year old mother of 4 with (so it seems) perfect hair and kids may remark about, stand tall knowing that God the Father is pleased with you and that is what matters most.

Through Eyes of Fire and Grace from Above,

~Autumn Rose

TwoAsOne · Status: Offline

You hit the nail on the head, Autumn Rose! There is a modern parable called Afabel by John Bevere that really opened my eyes to when we stand before God and how he would judge us. If our hearts are right before God and we are pleasing in His sight, it does give us a confidence to "handle" other folks judging. I met Trace once and she had commented on all the comments she gets on : "You don't look like a Pastor's wife".   Do you get those comments to ladies ? Just curious. I've found this to be common ground among us. So...what does a pw look like?
I have even had people reject me because I am so foo foo (i.e. I like bling, leopard print, etc) but in good taste (not gawdy and not sexually enticing). Trace is more conservative but neither of us
"look like a pw". Go figure.  Please Jesus in His will, love people and point them in the right direction!
Jesus was perfect and could not please everyone! That should tell us something (smile). I just want to hear well done my good , faithful servant from the audience of one!

FLOW_RCTB · Status: Offline

Just so you know it is hard when you "just look like a First Lady!" I am a full participant in the Black Baptist Tradition with the hats, spiked heels and then I am a part of the stereotype, alto singing, piano playing, preaching, teaching fashionista...

I shop at DSW for shoes but only in the 60-80% clearance tickets... Suits I buy off season... Hats I buy whenever I can get a great sale...

The benefit of being a clothes hog, is that I have a LOT of clothes... It may not be the best thing, but I never try to lose too much weight because if I had to replace my clothes to fit a new size it would not be pretty on my budget... I have some suits that are too big now, but when I was pregnant they looked like they would be the sixth-seventh months Sunday clothes... Or at least the fifth month... Now that I have lost the baby and the baby weight with her I am wearing my skinny clothes...

My daughter who is 23 used to be hard to outfit... But not because of budget as much as it was because she was always heavy and had huge feet... I always said I was going to sew clothes, but who had time??? I work EVERYDAY! At both my secular and church jobs.... Did I mention EVERYDAY!?!

Trace · Status: Offline

I've been enjoying this dialogue. I'm a yard sale, thrift store, Beall's Outlet on Friday only (for those under 50 you get your 15% discount), Ross kind of gal. And it's ok. We try to be good stewards with our money & have to make it stretch very far.

TwoasOne: I used to really struggle with the fact that I don't "look the part" as you know. But you really helped me through it all. I've learned it's not about how I look, but how I act/respond. I'm learning. But I'd love to go shopping w/ you one day. You get the best deals!!

My dh & I are having a good laugh. We've been in need of a 2nd vehicle for a while now. With our new move, it's imperative. Dh's dad told us one of his cars are for sale, & he'd sell it to us for $500. We're getting a vintage Mercedes! I say vintage, well, because it sounds better. It's 25 years old & has over 400,000 miles on it. But the price is right & it's in pretty good condition. The Trace family will be riding in style.

cassandra · Status: Offline

My dad's neighbor has a "vintage" mercedes and runs that baby off of fryvat oil from lil local diner, i kid you not. Get you some vat oil and tell everyone you are going green. Then you will be considered trendy and cool! :)

I blogged about this subject today. Would love to hear your thoughts.
http://cassandrastafford.blogspot.com/2008/08/when-it-rainswellit-cools-off.html
I am determined to have the right attitutde you all have stated--the "pleasing God and hope it pleases others but even if it doesn't oh well" attitude. But like I blogged about today, its not a matter of "i shop used because its ll I can afford" I used to feel that way. But God is helping me not define myself by where I shop. You same ladies read me a few years ago work through some of this because I felt sorry for myself because I couldnt go to certain places or didnt feel "good enough" for JCPenneys and places.
I broke that and now realize they are cheaper on some things than Walmart. But I was listening to faith teachers (and hear me when i say not all preach this but it DOES tend to seep out in their sayings) but I heard them preach about having a poverty mentality and using faith to quit buying their underware at Walmart and start buying it at Dillards. Actually heard that said! Now I realize it made me less content---not more content. And contentment is Gods goal. And funny thing is....as I have wrestled with this the last few days and decised to just be content and not worry about people and society and its politics, I feel more confident because I know GOD will give my kids favor and advancement---not MY provision of the right clothes and activities. And those things HE wants them involved in....HE will provide for and we will prioritize.
It has been great to hear we all are in the same boat.
I too hear how I dont seem like a pastors wife. people always act shocked. So I too wonder what am I supposed to act like and look like then? :)

Autumn Rose · Status: Offline

I totally agree on this. My whole Master's Paper was on the "Struggles of a Pastor's Wife".

It is one thing to dress and live with a poverty mentality........ I was homeless for 2 years of my childhood and did not have a bed until I got to college. I slept on the floor of a two bedroom apartment shared with my parents, and two brothers. My parents had the living room, my brothers shared a room, and I shared a room with our storage boxes. My parents took us shopping at thrift stores and such, but when my mom bought clothes for me, and when I bought clothes for me, it was a big difference. My mom's mindset for a long time was, "I have no money, I must be poor, I must dress like my limit". My mindset was and is, "I have no money, but God is my source for resources, I will dress to the level of God's will in my life, to have His best while using wisdom."

..........It is another thing to not accept it. You can have a ton of money and still have a poverty mindset.

As I grew older, got a job and bought my own clothes, people did not believe that I even was related to my family! They still don't. They say I don't act, look, or dress like them. It is no disrespect to my parents, but I chose to go the other way in my thinking and choices.

Who we are is not in our money, looks, or even other's expectations, but who we are in Christ.
Discover your gifts, talents, abilities, etc and you discover the very heart of God's purpose for your life. Ladies I believe that jobs and positions are what you do, not who you are. You act like you...are you funny, light hearted and out-going? Then great...go for it, use that to your strength and abilities and look at what God can do.
Are you quiet, a helper, and behind the scene woman? Go for it...look what God can do.

There is no cookie cutter when it comes to pastor's wives..or a woman pastor for that matter.
You do not have to play the piano, sing, and lead women's ministry to be used of God (and if you do, go for it!). God has fashioned you the way you are to be used in a very special way. What are you passionate about? What hurts you to see in others? Those are the things God has called you to! What has God done in your life? God restored me from a TON Of things...

and... RESTORATION is the song that my heart sings.

Okay...I can go on and on. I am all about this....seeing God develop in you what His plan is for your life..no matter the background or struggles....

I will have to start another topic to the findings of my paper! It was very interesting!

With much Love and Respect to the women of God,

~Autumn Rose

TwoAsOne · Status: Offline

Autumn Rose, well written and worth said! And I am nothing like my family of origin either! They also recognize it and pick me to pieces for every good virtue (good training ground for some people in ministry!) I don't fit the mold for PW either but I have found my place (i.e. pulpit ministry, human video, etc).
We should be ourselves in good taste! Like anyone else, we should work on our weaknesses but focus on the strengths that we bring to the table and surround ourselves with people who celebrate us not tolerate us. And done so with the motive: All to bless not impress.

Poverty mindsets are a reality that I have had to deal with but balance is the key. We don't go to the extreme of debt to keep up with the Jones'. God provides in so many ways! Right now my teen has a girlfriend whose parents are so generous with him. They have updated his wardrobe. There doesn't seem to be strings attached; they are just very giving and compassionate people. I have many friends like that. I feel bad that I can't give back in the same measure but I do try to do little things at least. Fortunately, I am naturally a giver not a taker. My kids are givers too. I never discouraged it even when things were tight because I think it's a good virtue. By the way JCP has a huge sale on girl clothes each winter. My sons also found skate pants at $2 a pair. I let them by the rack! They were shocked. But teen jeans that cheap was a miracle!

As fair as having a yard perfectly manicured: if you lived in a housing association neighborhood that's the norm to be expected no matter who you are. I think the main thing is to do the best with what you have by being faithful in the little things. If we take care of what little we have , it's a good reflection of Christ. We had a staff pastor who "destroyed" the parsonage with animal feces and pets. I was shocked how they left it when they moved out. It's a bad witness to others. We are Christians before we are pastors! When we focus on that and how what we do affects those less spiritual, I think it's the key to a heart that's after God.

As far as "extras" for the kids, we are in private schools and one of them has extravagant field trips (i.e. Disney amusements, dinner theaters,etc) I can't always send my child! I have to decline and do the make up assignments. So far the kids have been okay with it since they get to stay home from school but sometimes I do get pressure from parents and have "wondered" what kind of jobs they have to be able to afford all of this. Plus, if I am going to go all out like that I want to do it as a family! Teacher appreciation gifts get to me too! I like to get nice things on close-out to have on hand for stuff like this but I am hit up for $$ all the time! You just have to learn to just say no (guilt free:) It's peer pressure!

-- Edited by TwoAsOne at 01:59, 2008-08-14

-- Edited by TwoAsOne at 02:12, 2008-08-14

puppetmaster · Status: Offline

Just jumping in now - I've been at kids' camp :o).

Joining the "you don't look like a pastor" club! I'm female, for one thing, so I've gotten the "so where does your husband pastor?" comment more times than I can count...but that's a whole other post, lol!!!

As far as the whole "image" thing goes - I grew up getting most of my clothes from thrift stores and garage sales. My mom always made sure the clothes looked nice and all that - but I was still completely embarrassed that my friends got their stuff from Maurice's and I got mine from the neighbor's garage.

To be totally honest, I am completely over that. I really don't care who knows that I enjoy thrift shopping, or that I get my underwear at Target or Walmart (I can't see how that really matters, since the only person who sees them is my husband, and...okay, yeah, that's another post, too!!!). If someone has a problem with their children's pastor going thrift shopping, then quite honestly, that's their issue - not mine.

My biggest "issue," though, is that my husband and I rent an apartment and have no plans in the near future to buy a house. I've been asked many times, "When are you going to 'settle in' and buy a house here?" or "We'll just have to pray that God sends you a house..."

Okay, here's the thing: We WERE homeowners. For five and a half years. Because of a whole bunch of financial setbacks toward the end of our time at our previous church, our house went into foreclosure. Fortunately, we were able to sell it within the grace period and pay back the $$ we owed, but we made just a tad above breaking even.

Even if we wanted to buy right now, there's no bank on earth that would help us. Besides, the house we owned was a "fixer upper," and we sunk a lot of $$ into that place. Our apartment, on the other hand, was BRAND NEW when we moved into it. It's built more like a townhouse, with an outside entrance...it is actually larger square-footage wise than our house was...they allow pets (which was a deal breaker for us - I love my "baby"!!)...and we've got a washer and dryer in-unit. For less than a house payment. It is an absolute miracle that we were able to move into a place as nice as this...

It also allows us to get ahead a little bit, because if something breaks, it is the responsibility of the management to fix it or replace it - not us.

But we do feel pressure from people to hurry up and buy a house locally! I understand that people want to feel like we're putting down roots and plan to stay awhile - but if I hear one more person talk about how we just need to have faith, or that we need to pray and believe that God will send us a house...I am going to scream!!! I don't want to advertise to everyone that we went into foreclosure - and honestly, because we do live in such an amazing place, I have a whole list of other things I'm praying and believing God for - long before I pray and believe for a house.

cassandra · Status: Offline

Hey you are ahead of my husband and I. We have been in our town three years and are still renting the house we moved into here. We rented back in our home state. We have rented our whole 13 year marriage besides the one time we bought a single wide trailer when we first married. We wish we could buy some acreage somewhere with bigger house but we are content where we are for several reasons. We feel just as rooted as anyone else! And I have done thie fixing up thing and man...a nice new place...renting or not....it's nice!!!! I have no desire to fix up another place while we live in it. :)

Autumn Rose · Status: Offline

Despite the pressure, you must be wise with your fininaces and honor the plan set by you in your husband, even more so when you have had some set backs in the past. I totally understand that...

~Autumn Rose