Just a question...perhaps I'm alone in this (and it's just my crazy life) but I thought I would ask if any of you deal with this.
Do you face a lack of understanding with extended family, friends (even friends in ministry) or whoever in your life (outside the church) about your schedule? Do they not seem to "get it" or understand why you:
1) Can't do things for them within a certain time frame.
2) Sometimes just don't have any time to do what they are asking you to do, period?
People in my church understand this pretty clearly as far as personal things. They know I'm so incredibly busy that they usually apologize when they even call me for something outside the office setting. We have a church that is good about this, in general. They realize the pastoral lifestyle to a degree. I think they see all that happens at our church and I think they realize, the staff bears a tremendous responsibility in it all. For those that don't, I let them know. A fairy godmother does not come in, in the middle of the night and create all this. Somebody works real hard. Well anyway...
I find that in addition to my church work, I also have a lot of other ministry going on -- writing, speaking engagements, etc. My world has to be so on a track and organized to do all that I do -- all that God has called me to do, but also quite honestly, this is what I desire to do - what I have prayed for, for a long time.
There are many times people outside of my world just don't understand what life requires in my world. (Example: when they visit here, I can't just drop everything because they are here...Example: If they call and say, "hey, could you send me a copy of this or that message..."-- do they understand I might not do that for a while if I don't have time to dig it out and mail it or e-mail it? It could be a month til' I send it when I get a chance, or I may not get a chance. Example: if they ask me to just take off for the weekend and come see them...do they understand I just can't do that in most instances?
I don't live the life of a Christian celebrity as somebody like Paula White or Joyce Meyer would do, but I tell you what, I understand why people tell you that those people are extremely carefully guarded, have "body guards" (more for their peace and ability to keep their schedule on track than for safety reasons), and why you really can't get ahold of them on a personal level, unless they are right there, ministering to you in a service. There are probably a lack of people who understand the track their life is on. If I feel it at this level in ministry -- which is no where near theirs -- I can't imagine what people such as that must feel. They probably get very lonely at times, but that is a price they pay to take the opportunities that the Lord has brought their way.
It seems the more doors that are opened for you in ministry, although people who have been long term friends or family are happy for you, many times they do not understand what is required of you. As you receive more opportunities for the Lord, it also means greater responsibility and your time is more limited than it has ever been before.
I guess this is on my mind even greater at this time because God has just opened up some further ministry doors for me as I enter the new year. I have accepted these opportunities and in taking them up, will have much less time for things that I mention above. With putting my relationship with God first, my husband and children next, fulfilling my calling as a pastoring partner within my church, and then taking the other opportunities the Lord is bringing my way that I have prayed for, for so long...it means I will probably face this issue even more.
What do you think? Do you face this? I know with many of my friends in the ministry -- even those who aren't involved to the level most of us are -- but they say that their extended family just doesn't understand why they don't come see them on Christmas, Easter, etc...they do not understand that these are major "work" times for ministers.
I have often heard the saying, "The pastoral life defies explanation to anyone outside of it." What do you think?
My family is usually pretty flexible and understanding about my schedule - we've been known to celebrate holidays whenever we can all get together (I have an aunt who is a supervisor at a house for developmentally disabled adults, so her holiday schedule is sometimes difficult as well...someone has to be there to care for the residents!), even if it's not the "actual" day.
But yeah, I know what you mean. The biggest issue for me with my unsaved friends and family is that of drinking. They don't seem to "get" that first of all, I have made the conscious, personal decision not to drink alcohol. But even if I hadn't, my decision to be in the ministry means that I would have needed to sacrifice that, anyway. So instead of being understanding of that, they deem DH and me as "judgmental" of their lifestyle. Huh? Did I SAY that they couldn't drink?
There is a high price to pay when we take the mantle of "pastor" onto our shoulders, especially if we are going to really chase after God. I'm just beginning to skim the surface, I think! I just hope and pray that I will be able to maintain the friendships I've made - that is what scares me most about the ministry!
Puppetmaster...you can't let that fear get ahold of you, and realize that if your friends cannot adjust to your ministry calling...you will find friends who can.
I am finding that it takes very special friends -- covenant friends -- to really hang with you the more God opens up for you in ministry. Here's the thing...when my husband and I were pastoring a little bitty church with hardly any people nobody was threatened by us - especially the more middle aged pastors, and they all just thought we were this cute young couple pastoring a little church. Well, as more doors have opened up for us and we are pastoring a larger church, and more opportunities open up for us -- sometimes it is difficult to keep the same friends throughout your lifetime because quite honestly -- some people are not happy for you. They are wondering, "why not me?" if it hasn't happened for them.
It's strange - some of my friends who were really with me in the valleys when I had absolutely nothing going on, well...let's rephrase that -- when I was completely a broken up mess -- were just my dearest friends. But when I came out of that and into the new season God had for me a few could not take the fact that I was so blessed. Please don't misunderstand - the majority have, especially our best pastor friends in AZ, and many many more who you've actually met on this site (Pastor Tana, Pastor Tara, etc.)
The bible has instructed us to weep with those who weep (mourn) and rejoice with those who rejoice. I have found some friends strangely can weep with you (maybe because they are having such a hard time as well at the time?) but when you come into your next level -- when God enlarges your territory -- and maybe it hasn't happened for them- they have a hard time. Sort of like...if you are trying to get pregnant and can't..........and then a friend of yours gets pregnant. You are happy for them...but to an extent. Know what I mean?
So I have noticed - with those who can't handle it - sometimes you do lose those friendships not through a "falling out" argument type thing, but just a fade away thing. And when that happens, I guess it is best to let them go, because a true covenant friend, what it's all about is...my failures are your failures and my successes are your successes.
I have just found it is the most wonderful safe feeling in the world to have a friend who you can call up and tell the latest absolutely mind-blowing blessing that has happened to you, and you call them up and shout about it and they shout right back just as happy. Finding a relationship like that -- or having one over your entire ministry like I do with just a very few people -- is a priceless thing. I have found that just as it is difficult to find true friends who stick with you in the valley -- so it is also hard to find friends who are truly happy for you -- all the way, deep down, truly happy on the mountaintop.
Something else I have realized...(and I know I'm making this an absolute BOOK...SORRY!!!) I'm rambling but please indulge me, I have had two funerals in one week here and just need to ramble on for a while about something else!) Anyhoo...something else I have realized is that when you come into a new level in your ministry, your challenges and problems change. And many times you still do have "problems" but they are of a different nature, and friends who are not at the same "place" in life might get perturbed when you share about the same things you used to.
For instance...let's say one pastor is struggling to meet the church mortgage but they are in a very small church and it's $2,000 a month. He is friends with another pastor who used to be in the same boat, but now his friend is at a new church where he still struggles to make the mortgage, but it is a $15,000 mortgage each month because of the much larger facility and church. So, if the $15,000 guy says to the $2,000 guy, "Boy, things were really tight this month..." the $2,000 guy thinks, "TIGHT? You don't know what tight is!!!" And really doesn't want to hear his friend talk about finances anymore because they just aren't on the same page. Or...
Let's say the one pastor is in a church of 50 people as a solo pastor, with no staff and is struggling to get the church to the next level. His friend used to be in the same boat, but he recently went to a church that is 500 people with several staff members. He works just as hard but his challenges and problems are very different now. So, in conversation with his friend who pastors the smaller church, he says, "We just went through a rough situation with our youth pastor." To which his friend has absolutely no compassion and thinks (or possibly even says)..."I just wish I had a youth pastor!"
Do you see what I mean? Sometimes it becomes difficult for friends who haven't been able to adjust to your new situation. But enough about that.
Puppetmaster, don't worry about the situation with the drinking. My dh dealt with that with his unsaved family for a very short time right when we got married and went into ministry but it lasted all of a year or so and we never heard anything about it again. They just finally come to the realization that it's not part of your life.
Do you have anyone in your family who is saved, Puppetmaster? That can be difficult because different situations (even besides the drinking) arise throughout your life, marriage, ministry. You can always come here and talk to us if you get discouraged or have a problem.
I feel your pain... My struggle is with my non-PW friends who are constantly telling me that I need to get a life outside of the church and work.... Their favorite assessment is that Ronnelle you go from work to church to home... When do you have time to have a life? YUCK! I just want to scream THIS IS MY LIFE! THIS IS MY CHOICE!
Add that to the people who call and say I know that you are probably busy but I really need to know who sings this song or where this scripture is and then you say well do you have your Bible handy and they say hold on let me go get it!
Finally, because I do work outside of the church and home, my ultimate favorite I WISH YOU HAD A CLUE moment is when people ask me why I can take vacation time to go play for a funeral for one of our Emeritus Deacons (I will be doing this on Monday)but can not take a 1/2 day just to go mall hopping... Can you say priorities??? Can you say go to the mall after work??? I plan my vacations with my family and then the rest of my leave time I reserve for issues that come up that are related to my calling...
This is not a hobby... This is my calling - I was created for this!
I feel your pain, Flow, I feel your pain. From one eagle to another, we often soar alone, sister.
Not only does "the pastorate" defy explanation to those outside of it, but the pastoring partner with a true call (not just somebody married to a pastor) really, really, really defies explanation. People do not have a clue when it comes to us ladies as to why we do what we do and what really drives us. They do not understand the all out, impassioned call of God. They do not understand that this is something we are not just willing to die for, we are living for it. Absolutely living for it.
It can be frustrating, tiring, very redundant to keep explaining it to people. I'm sure you deal with it in mega doses with people outside the church. But it's inside the church too. I have had people say to me, "Maybe one day you can find somebody to do everything you do so you won't have to work at the church." I find that so incredibly laughable. I say, "Uh.....I don't HAVE to work at the church -- this is my life! It's my choice! I love doing what I do and I would not trade it for the world! I'm the most blessed woman in the world!!!" A few people (not many in the church, most people in my church totally understand my call and they are such an incredible bunch, but a few (mostly new people) who just don't have an understanding of it because perhaps they are coming from another situation where the PW was radically different) just can't get their brain around the fact that this is a choice for me and not something I am forced to do by virtue of: 1) no one else to do it, so I have to. 2) Financial matters - needing to work. Neither case is true. My dh could pay someone else to do what I do though he never would because he would never find someone who would put in the hours and dedication that I do. Financially I would not absolutely have to "work," (which this is not really classified by me as working even though I'm paid - this is my calling - but why shouldn't I be compensated especially with the time, and excellence that I give, just like any other staff?
Some people in the past have suggested the same things to me as you say you have encountered, Flow. However my answer is...if I stop doing this ---------I'll die inside. It's like the apostle Paul - woe to me if I do not preach the gospel. Life is over for me at that point. Before I was anything else in life, I was a daughter of God -- and called of Him.
One time I was in a serious situation where I needed to have medical attention asap. Unfortunately, this happened literally the day before my biggest outreach of the year where I was preaching. My doctor (you've heard me refer to her before, she is a member of our church - a leader) anyway...she said, "Deanna, I really need to put you in the hospital right now and we need to take care of this." I said, "No, let's do it after the outreach." She said, "I don't know that we have that long. I have to be honest with you, you could die." I said, "Rosemay, I've worked all year long on this...and if I don't preach tomorrow, I will die." (I know some of you all are going...DEANNA IS CRAZY! Well, you're right. I am crazy. ) Anyway, I told her the second the outreach was over she could do whatever she wanted. She gave me a bunch of stipulations...no eating...and a bunch of rules and I agreed to do whatever she said as long as she let me preach that next day. She did, and I went out there, gave my usual 200%, saw about 20 people get saved, and then stepped down off the platform, went into the hospital and got fixed up. When I got out of the hospital, I laid in my bed and watched the 4-hour video tape of that outreach 17 times!!! Yes, 17. I laid there and cried like a baby at the goodness of the Lord. While I was watching that video for 2 weeks, my ladies brought me everything known to man...everything down to my meals, chocolate, they cleaned my house, watched my kids, everything. I've been absolutely 100% healthy after that, and I'm still ministering my heart out with no regrets. Of course, I wouldn't suggest this to anyone else necessarily.....I know it's very crazy and risky but for me I know I would have regretted it had I not preached that outreach.
You know, to the person who is just along for the ride in this (an uninvolved pw, or people outside the church, or family members who don't understand) they can't even comprehend the passion within us that drives us to do something like that. And I know I'm pretty over the top. My husband has long told me, "Deanna, stop looking for people who will do the same things you do - it's like looking for a needle in a haystack and you'll drive yourself crazy. God made you and broke the mold." Well, yeah but I think I have found a few needles in a haystack on this site, including you, Flow!
Flow, I can't wait to sit down with a cup of coffee with you in person some day if either one of us can steal away long enough from our respective ministries to do it!
Deanna - Thanks for the encouraging words! Yes, a good portion of my side of the family is saved! My mom is absolutely awesome, and I don't think I'll ever know God as much as she does!! It's more DH's side of the family that discourages us. His dad and stepmom are saved, but most of his family members that we see on a more regular basis are not! His mom and stepdad went ballistic on him when he even suggested to them that maybe they could cut down on the drinking - they're alcoholics and atheists. [Someday, maybe you'll get to hear my DH's whole testimony - it was prophesied over him that he'd share it with thousands and thousands someday, It's pretty amazing what God has brought him through and kept him from in the midst of a family that puts the "fun" in dysfunctional!] But anyway, that's the family that I married into.
As far as friendships go, I have one friend (other than my DH, who was my best friend for five years before we got married!) who I really consider to be a close friend. She's the youth pastor at our church, and she and her husband are our best friends in the world. I have had very few good friends in my life, and I feel so privileged to have someone that close to me who I get to work in ministry with, too! I had a really hard time letting myself get close to her, first of all because of trust issues that God is still healing me of, and second of all, because let's face it: pastors move away! We've actually talked (only half-jokingly) about all of us up and moving together if one of us ever gets called to some other state, because neither of them have ever experienced a close friendship like this, either. We actually joke about following our senior pastor if he ever goes to another church, because we all adore working under him and his wife (we've told him he's stuck with us - we're his traveling circus !! Seriously, though - I have never really maintained a friendship long-term, other than my husband, and I feel like a kindergartener just discovering what it's like to have friends. It sounds weird - I am 28 years old, and I will oftentimes ask my husband, "So is this what I'm supposed to do as a friend in this situation?" So, I am just sort of fumbling through this for the first time, and I have, in the past couple of years, made several wonderful friends, and I am just trying to trust God to make these friendships last a lifetime!!
As far as people not getting it on a financial level, I actually put together a workshop called "Effective Children's Ministry on a Shoestring Budget" that I presented to a tiny home missions church last summer, because the people in that church didn't realize that you COULD do children's ministry in a small church. The senior pastor's daughter is a children's pastor in a 2,000 member church, and she came and presented a kid's crusade for them with all her puppets and expensive equipment, which was great (she is SUPER talented!), except that they came away discouraged, thinking, "Well, we can never do anything like THAT in our church!" I was intimidated at first, knowing that they had all seen this other children's pastor in action, but they were thrilled to get ideas for object lessons, etc. that they could do with stuff they found lying around the room!
So, I guess this has turned into another book! Great discussion, Deanna!!! And it does drive me nuts when people think I throw myself into my little projects because I "have to." No, it's because I'm passionate about reaching kids! I have finally figured out what I was created to do, and I can't stop doing it!!!
This topic has been on my mind since we left Tampa in December, and I can't believe you brought it up Deanna!
First of all, I do run into this with my family, mostly Dh's family. They are still angry about our spending Christmas in the mission feild and not with them as we always have done. There have also been many other times when a trip to the US Senate, or a speaking gig has caused hurt feelings. But a true friend will not dump you over this or have ill will against you.
The reason I have been thinking about this is , well, my visit with Deanna and Larry. It was so nice, and alot of fun! It made me miss her all the more when we left. And I began to think about this topic for a couple of reasons. The fact that she is in Tampa and we are here ,and unable to be together more, for one thing.(she's been like family to me since our childhood) And the fact that her schedule, like mine, can be out of this world at times. But I love Deanna, and all of that comes with it! There are times when I have wanted to call her, and realized it was a Sat. night and it was not going to be a good time for her. So I didn't and e-mailed her instead. All of this comes with loving a person in an agape' way. Yes, I would love to be able to walk next door and chat with her over the fence each day, but God has called us both to ministry in different places. Our needs must be secondary to his call.
Deanna's office is also nicer than mine, she has already published, and I have just began writing. She has ALWAYS been a better singer, and has produced soundtracks.(it was not easy growing up next to all that perfection gals! Just kidding Deanna!) We are in different places in our ministry, but our Father loves us equally, and her successes, are also mine! I am so excited for her!!! I would be lying if I said I am completley content here in Pa. without her close by like the old days, or that I would not have liked more time with her when we were there. And yes, I do think we need to take care to cultivate our relationships that God has blessed us with. But, people need to realize what it takes to be a MOM, and WIFE and run a ministry for others. Each minute of each day is precious, and we need to spend them wisely, something I have ALWAYS struggled with.
While I was in Florida , I worked by phone on a ministry issue going bad. A pregnant girl is in prison, losing wieght and getting very ill as she struggles with no heat, and very little food for a pregnant girl. All kinds of problems. I was trying to use my contacts to help her or even get her released to home detention(white collar, not violent). My mother asked me, "Why do you have to get so involved in this mess?" For one thing, she is a member of my church and a fellow Christian. The bookeeping errors were blamed on her many years ago at her first job as a young girl and it took them years to prosecute her. I felt a true injustice was being done and her chronic high blood pressure and loss of wieght from being underfed was putting her innocent baby in harm's way. God has called me to this, I can't just drop it because it's the toughest case I've ever had in my ministry. And Becky's case has taken months of work for me. Hours every day on it trying to help her and keep her family from losing hope and faith.
Anyway, when you take on this mantle, the people closest to you need to support you, not turn on you. I have had both. And some do just fade away. But my friends, like Deanna's, who were there with me in the early days and have stayed with me, are the best friends I could ever have. They love me and all the high maintainance that goes with it. I meet with them at least every week, if I can, so we do not lose that bond that is so important for those in the field.
Thanks for this topic Deanna, and for loving me, warts and all! love to all! lw
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...... Then they came for the Catholics, and I was a Protestant, so I never said anything. And then, they came for ME, and there was no one left to speak up. Martin Neimoller, German Pastor, WW2
Hello everyone. I haven't posted in a while but I read the board everyday and pray for each one posting. Pastor Deanna, I do deal with this . Our families are the worst. my Dh 's mom doesn't understand why we can't come down for Sunday dinner on Sundays. Also my Dh left for 2 weeks last week and he is going to be gone on his birthday. You would have thought he had committed an unpardonable sin!! My family isn't so bad but my mom resents the time the people want from us.Why do they want you at the hospital to pray.don't they know they can pray without you there. I just tell her they want the presence of Jesus with skin on. also I have had friends attack us because they didn't like to see God blessing us while their lives are not going well. It hurts when friends say that all we talk about is the church but it's our lives just like they talk about working at their corporation and their lives. My dh has a friend in the church that is self employed. He drops by the church to chat and my dh has to say I have to get back to work. The running joke is why you only work 2 days a week. uggghh! People don't understand that this is not a job but an adventure, a calling, and a choice. I have lost a few friends along the way and had a few to fall away. I actually had afriend whoi had been in the ministry for years -her dh was ayouth pastor and good at it. When my dh was called as a senior pastor after 3 yrs as a youth pastor . She became so angry! When I would call her for advise ( she was my mentor because she was more mature in things than I , she would say I could figure it out because I am an SPW . What's up with that? I was terrified of this new calling at the time. Talk aabout hurt . Now it's hard for me to make close friends because I trusted her so much and now she wont' even return my calls. Oh well. My dh and he talk ever now and then but not herand I. Last I heard he was minister of education and outreach and happy about it. My question is how does one keep from being hardened and scared to make friends knowing that one day they will fall away? ( please excuse any typing errors. typing and nursing a baby don't go together lol) love Ralinda
Ralinda, I so know where you're coming from! And I wish I had an answer. I have made so many friends who have fallen away, not just from me, but from God.
I don't know what lasting friendship feels like. I know that my current best friend is a "keeper," but we've only been friends for two years.
Both of us have said that we pray that we will not end our lives being bitter toward friendship and the ministry in general. Ministry is a difficult life - but I have to trust God that He did not bring this friend into my life so supernaturally just to take the friendship away and say, "Ha ha, just kidding!"
DH and I and our best friends are also dealing with a fifth friend who resents us for chasing after Jesus while he is bitter towards God and the ministry. He will at least talk to us, but we are all so emotionally drained by the time we are done spending time with him! He comes to church and sits there like it's a chore, and then gets mad when we start talking about the ministry, or our plans for a children's or youth activity (it's a small church, so we help each other out a lot!). Any time we're excited about God or the church, he is resentful. The only time he is happy to talk about church is when we're venting our frustrations about something. So we've tried to stop doing that in front of him.
How does someone get that way? How can someone who once worked in the ministry and chased after Jesus - even prophesied and walked up to complete strangers and led them to Christ - just turn and pretend that he doesn't understand the demands and the excitement of working in the ministry?
Ralinda girl, I have missed you so much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have been thinking of you but misplaced your e-mail address. Ugh! I am so glad you posted!!!!!!!!! (Please send me your address again by the way.) And...we don't mind misspellings or whatever with that nursing baby on your lap. We just want to hear from you, so please post no matter what it looks like...we will decipher it if it is ever necessary!!!
Okay, Ralinda about the question you ask. I understand. It's hard. Everyone I really dump with is long distance...everyone I'm brutally honest with, that is. And that gets hard. You know, there are days I crave just driving down the street to Starbucks and pouring my heart out about something that I am dealing with. Instead I find myself at such places all the time meeting people to discuss their life, ministry planning, etc. I find the "in person" thing really hard. I have a few PW's here in Florida that I have met that I get together with for lunch. We are still building our relationship. I like these ladies a lot, but I would not call us completely intimate friends or anything. We mostly have shop talk. All of us are co-pastors and so therefore all of our talk centers around that. Like, "how's your outreach coming along?" Or... "how did you end up dealing with that problem lady?" Or whatever...but it's not like I get into anything personal from home nor have I ever talked about really deep things in my life. All of that in my life is still long distance and limited to phone, e-mail and occasional visits. Although I'm totally in love with Tampa and never plan on leaving barring God forcing me to, (I don't know how I would handle it!) it is still hard for me to make those kinds of friends because I realize THEY might move. And when they move, things change. Ralinda, I don't have any hard and fast answer for this. Bottom line is...it's tough!!! And I find the hard thing is...when I have time to talk...many times other people are busy, and when they have time, I don't. Sometimes we just lead a lonely life and there is no easy way to get around it.
As far as your comments, Puppetmaster, a lot of people get disillusioned with ministry and act that way. Get ready. Most of the people you went to bible college with will not be in the ministry in 10 years. When my dh and I see somebody at a district or general council that we went to school with, even if we barely knew them we all act like we are long lost friends and part of the reason is...we're the only ones that made it! We're the only ones that stuck with it and are still doing this. It is difficult to see your friends fall away from the ministry and of course even harder when they fall away from God! The ministry is not for sissies, that's for sure.
A fairy godmother does not come in, in the middle of the night and create all this. Somebody works real hard. Well anyway...
It's pretty amazing what God has brought him through and kept him from in the midst of a family that puts the "fun" in dysfunctional!] But anyway, that's the family that I married into. 
