I have some comments and questions for those of you who actually work at the church office as I do...(I know some of you are highly involved pastor's wives, yet you do not work FT in the church office.) But I would like to ask this of those of you who are pastors, or PW's who are involved in the day to day atmosphere of the office, about this.
It is interesting to me how many people really have no clue that we really have work to do at the office. A few of my staff members have commented on this to me just this week. I thought I was the only one frustrated with it. Nada. It is a difficult problem to address, and I have wondered...just HOW do you address it, in some cases?
There are some people who stop by either to chat about non-sensical things or they want to lay some work on you (which they should be doing themselves) and have no consideration for the staff's schedules. In our office, we have a "waiting room" with a glass window just like you would at a Dr.'s office. When anyone enters our office building they have to approach the window, then sit in the waiting room. The former pastor arranged all this to curtail just the problem I speak of. And in many cases, it works. (with normal people who "get it.") Those who have appt's with our staff sit and wait, and things go smoothly. Of course we always welcome people in who are seeking spiritual guidance, wanting to know about salvation...we truly have had many people literally come to the window and basically ask, "WHAT MUST I DO TO BE SAVED?" Our staff drops any agenda we have for this. Or, for "emergencies." And we truly love the people and want to be with them...we're in the people business, after all. But I'm not talking about spiritual guidance here nor emergencies or things that really make a difference. I'm talking about stupid stuff, even salespeople...paper product people, cleaning supply people, church directory sales people...everybody under the sun. And you have to set boundaries and guidelines.
The window SHOULD curtail things. But here's what we deal with. People look through the window, and when they see a staff member walk by, they will yell out to whatever person (staff member) it is that they want to see. Sometimes I don't even want to walk out of my office when certain people are in the waiting room because I know I'll be summoned with a "yell" and then forget it, I'm stuck for the next 1/2 hour. So, I won't even go out into the outer office to use the copy machine. Crazy, I know. It's not just with our pastors, it's with our support staff. In particular, my asst. is very busy and she doesn't have time to deal with stuff that really doesn't make any difference in the scheme of things. She thinks people must think we just sit around all day with nothing to do.
This week we had a short work week due to the Thanksgiving holidays. The office closed at noon today and wont' open again til' Monday. We have really been rushing around getting things done. In particular two people have stopped by and just act like we have nothing in the world to do but be at their whim. While one of them was standing there this week demanding various things which they could have done themselves that was not on any of our staff member's agendas, I received a phone call from a salesman wanting to sell me video tapes, and I loudly said, "Look, I don't even have five spare seconds to check out your videos as nice as they may be. We have so much work to do around here, we don't have a second to spare" The person who had stopped by just got real wide eyed, like that was a shock. I'm thinking to myself, "would you like to see my daytimer?" (Or my agenda list) Either one would be a huge eye opener.
What would you do? I found it interesting...I was in our presbyter's office for a meeting a few weeks ago, and when I walked out into their outer office area, I noticed that there was a sign by the secretary's desk that said, 'YES, WE WOULD LIKE TO VISIT TOO...BUT WE HAVE WORK TO DO."
What do you think of that? Where do you draw the line? You know, there is somewhat of a need to have friendly banter and chat a bit, but when people think we just exist for it...it really can affect our productivity.
Note that the problem is not at all with the church staff -- they get as irritated about it as I do. And the larger your church gets, the bigger the problem can be. I am shocked that people don't even get the hint when they see phones ringing off the hook, and stacks of projects everywhere. So, what do you think?
I have no way of relating to working in the church office, however, this same problem occurs all too often in medicine.
The glass window and the "Please wait" signs mean nothing to some people. Sometimes drug reps., most do not, but some just insist on being buzzed right in as opposed to the more polite reps who write down thier names on a sheet and wait for the receptionist to open the window.
People really do think that the church office has little to do. I am not certain how this common misconception began, but it is very prevalent. I have made requests of our secretary, but I have only done so with the blessing of the senior pastor and NOT VERY OFTEN!
We also have a segment of the community that thinks our church is there to fully support them and not be a supplement in a real emergency. I hate to even say this out loud but one Sunday I was in the nursery with D.J. as she was being fussy in service. This lady came right in to the room and DEMANDED a food voucher and money for gas. When Pastor had been to her home the night before to give her money and food. I told her that we were in the middle of church and she would have to talk to pastor after. She demanded to see him now. Well, I had to make her understand that while I understand she was in need, it was not acceptable to interupt worship. I asked her to join us, she said that she would come back in after service. I do not know if she did but pastor was getting a little uptight about her making the church her private bank.
Back to the glass window, we have no need really as we have a rather small church. But, I understand why a larger church with a bigger staff would need one. There is such a church down the street a bit. They are very friendly and all that and they will drop everything in a crisis to help, however, they have that glass window at the secretary's office for a reason. She will eventually see you, ask you to either come in or wait or whatever.
Do you have a sign? Like one that says "Please sign in so we know that you are here" and have a board there. The receptionist can welcome people in turn as she can get to them; or "Please be patient, we are serving the Lord" ; I think you really need this next one! "Attention salespersons: please leave your material here(have a basket) and we will consider it with prayer, Thanks! Pastor Larry". If the salespeople do not want to leave something, they MUST have an appointment.PERIOD, END OF STORY! This has worked well at our practice.Especially with salespeople, they are the pushiest at times. You must set a boundary line or you will do nothing but choose between 2-ply and 3-ply toilet paper!(I handled many of the salespeople at my friend's practice) So I can advise you on this one! Get a sign.
I assume that as organized as you are, you already have a system in place for people who have emergencies; like for a money crisis, please call Brother Brown; for food needs, please call Sister Jones....and like that. This helps in our church so that a dozen people do not show up at once at the church office with a need. I don't know if you do this, but it has worked for us. This way, our secretary does not have to handle all of these needs. If someone does not know who to call and they call her, she knows who to send the person to for whichever need they have. It takes her 2 minutes, then boom! Done! Next case!
I have seen signs work for some people, even some marginally rude people I have seen obey the signs, but some people will never get it and the staff will just have to be firm and say, "I am sorry, the staff is in prayer right now and can not be disturbed" or "I will be happy to take your name and number and see if Pastor Deanna can get back to you on this";
Otherwise, your office will become a place for chit-chat and not the biz of serving God. Not that you don't make time for others, I know you better! But I think you are saying there is too much non-sensical stuff interupting your real ministry, and you need to set guidlines. I hope I have said at least one thing here that is helpful to you.
Love you! LW
-- Edited by LW at 06:45, 2004-11-27
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...... Then they came for the Catholics, and I was a Protestant, so I never said anything. And then, they came for ME, and there was no one left to speak up. Martin Neimoller, German Pastor, WW2
Yes, what you've said helps a lot in just the fact that I know we're not alone in this problem. In our case, if they are in the foyer, we see them. The office foyer is not that big, and when they enter the front door, our security system beeps anyway, making it impossible for everyone in the outer office to know that someone is there. When any door in the place opens, it beeps. And, people just generally stand there at the glass window until you take care of whatever it is they want. They do not wait, they just come up, stand in the window and say, "Excuse me, but can you..." Most of the people do this because they "know" the staff (not the salespeople, but I'm talking about church people) and so they just come right in and plow right into whatever it is they want.
My worst thing is dealing with people who "stop by" instead of calling first and they are not emergencies or even real crucial things...and they just assume you will fit it into your schedule. Those things happen quite regularly and usually cause a major kink in my schedule. Basically, it makes me 15 or 20 minutes later to somewhere else I needed to be...or the whole staff will be waiting for me for lunch, a meeting, whatever...(but at least that gives me an excuse to say, "gotta go"...) or it just delays the other 20 things on my agenda for the day piling up more so that I have to hurry to jam everything in before the weekend. What happens is...I'll be sitting at my desk furiously working on a project and my assistant will pop her head in and say, "Uh...Jane Doe is here...she stopped by and wanted to know if you have 15 minutes..." Well, you know, you know, you know if I do not speak to Jane Doe, I will pay for it. The other day my husband had a business mtg. with someone in the church...I was glad he was having this mtg. instead of me because I was so swamped. I'm not kidding, I had stacks of paper on my desk to wade through that were literally a foot high...and at the end of his meeting, the person said, "I really wanted to at least stop in and say hi to Pastor Deanna." So fine, he brings them in, but stopping in can take 15 minutes...not that I don't love people...but I'm thinking...I'll neeevvver get through all this stuff. People say, "got a minute?" and the worst thing is...I don't! But I always give it to them, and I inevitably find that giving them a minute means one I don't have for myself...it usually means that something else I really need is shortchanged...or economized if you know what I mean...as Andy Stanley says...
I am not talking about people stopping by w/out an appt. who are clearly in need of something. Last month one of my precious ladies came straight to the church from an appt. with her doctor...she had been diagnosed with cancer. She just flew into the church office waiting room and straight into my arms. And yes, that's exactly what we're there for. I praise God that I was there, and not out to lunch or anywhere else but right there in that spot at that time! But I'm talking about the people who stop by with things that really could wait or have an appt. I remember when he left here, the previous pastor gave some instructions to the church on "how to treat your pastor"...and one of the things he told them was, "if it can wait...let it." That was good advice. I think every church should be aware of that.
Over the years I have had TONS of people and I do mean tons, call me with an 'emergency' that I had to drop everything for (or even on my day off) with something they have been dealing with for YEARS...something they have needed to address for YEARS (nothing new) yet 'THIS' was the day they were ready to do it....so they expected me to drop everything. One day a lady called me frantically years ago and demanded I counsel her on my day off...about her marriage. Surely her marriage was in dire straights. But I knew it had been that way for umpteen years. I said, "How long have you had this problem?" She said something like, "Oh, I think since 1976." You know, she had the problem since the 70's but never addressed it, and then the day she decides to address it, I'm supposed to say, 'DROP EVERYTHING! JANE'S GOT AN EMERGENCY!!!" I have often said that I want to post a statement in the church office, the bulletin wherever, giving the definition of the word "emergency". (Obviously you can't really do that, it would be inappropriate...I'm just saying...sometimes you feel like doing that...)
You're right, as far as the drop ins, perhaps we do need a sign. Thinking of just the right wording will be the task at hand. Our staff is great at handling things...I have really trained our office staff on how to be firm, firm, firm with telemarketers and salespeople. They (the staff) are now as tough as nails on them. But the problem come in when church people do not have appt's with the staff, but stop in and insist that they just drop all to do whatever they need.
God bless you, LW, you seem to see this quite clearly and I'm sure you are a fantastic advocate in your church...
Come to think of it...as far as the medical field...I was just at my doctor's house tonight fellowshipping (she is also a member of my church) and we were just talking about this very thing...and she deals with it in her office. The other day a lady (patient) stopped by to "talk" to her and when she stood at the window the secretary was like, "Okay, that'll be a 15 dollar co-pay...."or whatever...and the lady was like, "No, I just want to talk to her..." and the secretary was like, "Well, having a talk is a consultation and to have a consultation/meeting with the doctor -- an appointment -- requires that you pay her..." But evidently the patient did not understand that and thought she could just drop by, drop in and say, "alrighty doc, just drop everything and talk to me..." (for free!) I was shaking my head like, 'DON'T THEY GET IT?" (i wouldn't even do that to her, and I'm her pastor) I guess you are right, doctor's offices really get this kind of thing just as churches do.
Alright, I'm going to bed. Time for some shut eye. Love you all, and thanks for the vent..............
"We sure would love a visit from you to catch up! Won't you please make an appointment so we can chat? Love, Pastors Deanna and Larry"
I think it's simple and sends the message that if you really want to chat, please make an appointment. If I want to talk to my Pastor, I do this. Sometimes I call Dave and we chit-chat, but he does not always have time. He is a real people person too and he loves to re-connect with us if it has been a few weeks since we have spoken.
You could also put the above phrase in the bulliten. It may discourage them from just stopping by. And have Lindsey, I think that's her name, if not, forgive me. Anyway, have her keep those appointment times to maybe 20 minutes. Then , have her knock on the door or something when time is up, and be firm on it. I think 20 min. is enough time to chat and catch up with people, it has been true in my relationships inside and outside my ministry. Love ya', LW
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...... Then they came for the Catholics, and I was a Protestant, so I never said anything. And then, they came for ME, and there was no one left to speak up. Martin Neimoller, German Pastor, WW2
But I always give it to them, and I inevitably find that giving them a minute means one I don't have for myself...it usually means that something else I really need is shortchanged...or economized if you know what I mean...as Andy Stanley says...
