Yep, I think it's true! I really thought that if I served God and my family in this way, I would have maybe not perfect kids, but close enough........NOT TRUE!!!! WE are still ,ALL of us ...SINNERS! Am I just getting this? I guess I always knew, but did not want to see it clearly.
I discovered over the weekend that I, a person in minisrty, a professional talk show guest, and nurse, I have a kid who lies! I mean WHOPPERS!!!!!
I am devestated! The only problem with my oldest was laziness and disorganization. I whipped those issues with a holy ghost intervention and threats of my titus 2 lady friend's boot camp for teens!She is a long time homeschooler that all the kids fear.
We are taking steps to work through the inderlying issues, and my DH really took things in hand because he saw my devistation, I am so happy about this ladies. He really stepped in and took over this crisis for me which has never happened before. Perhaps this is what good came out of the bad over the weekend.
He really is wonderful, and has grown so much, and I guess I did not notice because I was putting the kids first all these years. Please pray for us ladies as we go through this together.
I love all of you! God Bless! LW
__________________
...... Then they came for the Catholics, and I was a Protestant, so I never said anything. And then, they came for ME, and there was no one left to speak up. Martin Neimoller, German Pastor, WW2
Perhaps this is so "new" you have not realized it yet, but what has just happened to you opens up new ministry opportunities in itself. There are many Christians who feel the way you once felt, but they do not keep it to themselves. They boast that IF you are homeschooling, or IF you have kids in Christian school, THIS is what will happen. And, instead of just thinking it to themselves, they criticize (openly and privately) many people in the church and get very judgmental and condemning. Unfortunately (for us) these parents sometimes have kids who are just naturally compliant and rather docile, and they don't go through what you went through to realize that there are no guarantees. They get away with this condemnation and boasting for a time because they have never had this happen to them. (But I believe in time, God deals with the pride.)
LW, I know you personally (not just on this board, for those of you ladies who are wondering) and I know that you have never been that type of person (judgmental, condemning, etc.) so I am not insinuating that this is what you did, but my point is merely that now God can use you as a voice to speak to those parents who do this and alienate others in the body of Christ, and actually cause great divisions.
I know of whole churches that have been split wide open over this issue. I believe God will use you to bring balance and healing to people who have had problems with this sort of thing.
I know that doesn't make it any easier with what you're going through with your kid...but at least you can realize that God WILL use this for good...He will bring glory out of this.
You are right that there is often a small number of moms in a church, including mine, who feel that they are better parents, and who are very open about it and divisive. Our pastor sends his son to public school, our local one is ok as schools go, this is a very small town. So I can get annoyed with that attitiude. During a hearing on the Pa. homeschooling law, my friend Mary, who runs the ladies fellowship from her home on thursdays, and founded the local homeschooling association said in response to a rep. who said "I get the feeling that homeschooling families have the attitude that they are better parents than non-homeschoolers, please respond." , without missing a beat Mary replied, "Under no circumstances what -soever do I want you to have that impression. EXCELLENT parents make all kinds of educational choices for thier children." This was a very good witness to the non-christians that I know were there that day. I was so glad she said it!!
My 15 year old is going through a rough time. We have alot of financial stress, and D.J.'s latest prognosis was pretty bad at Hopkins. We are all holding our breath here as cold weather sets in. Last year between October and March, 6 kids with this illness died fron pnuemonia and other complications.
For those of you not aware, our 12 year old daughter,D.J., has a fatal brain disorder with only a 3% survival rate. She needs her ninth brain surgery, but they are afraid she may die on the table this time, so we are waiting until we have no other choice.
Our Doctor thinks our other daughter is just responding to the stress we are all under right now. Plus, she was hit by a car and nearly killed a few years back. The accident left her with some very slight brain damage. She has had emotional problems ever since then. So, with everything piled up, we think it's just like a cry for help, so we are taking steps to handle all of that. But in any case, she is sinning, and sin must be dealt with.
Anyway, Deanna, and ladies, thanks for the kind words and the prayers that go up. I feel so safe here. And on judging, I came to learn early in my ministry that that is only for God to do! Until Jesus comes back, we need to help eachother, lift up each other, and rebuke our brother if need be, but in love only, not in judgement. Someday, I will tell you ladies how I learned this valuable lesson, THE HARD WAY! love you too! lw
__________________
...... Then they came for the Catholics, and I was a Protestant, so I never said anything. And then, they came for ME, and there was no one left to speak up. Martin Neimoller, German Pastor, WW2
Your attitude is so refreshing -- and needed in the body. I'm sure your pastor really appreciates your support.
I believe as you do -- parents need to make whatever choice is best for their child at the time. We have done it all - homeschool, Christian school, and public school. So I have seen all three perspectives. I have one friend who has 3 kids -- one in public, one HS, and one CS. It's simply what is best for each child, but it sure does keep the parents busy running! But they feel again, it's what's best for them at this time.
I am not militant for any one of the three choices. Personally, my own children tend to thrive better in public school. I have my two oldest kids on the honor roll this year and last, and my daughter, although they do not have an honor roll in elementary so to speak, she does very well. We have an excellent church that provides spiritual training and a myriad of actitivies, all of which they participate in, and of course most importantly -- we teach biblical values at home.
I do not have a problem with people being passionate about their choices -- excited about HS'ing, about the CS their kids go to, or the PS their kids go to. BUT -- my view is, don't get militant and try to turn it into some doctrine whereby those Christians not doing this are lesser in any way. The only thing in this case we should be militant about is obeying God for what He speaks to our family about it. I believe you have to get the mind of God on what is best for your children.
LW, you're a blessing. I know you are real involved in HS'ing very successfully and you are passionate about it -- you are a wonderful resource in your church and community, but completely without judgment. Keep it up.
I think that Satan uses the working mom vs. sahm issue to divide us as well. It is sad. As far as educational choices, our Pastor's son has thrived and brought kids to Christ! So who could say he should not be there! However, my girls did not do well in school. They have different learning styles, and I have alot of issues with what is taught in many public schools. Because of D.J.'s health, and my calling, homeschooling is best for US.
I would say that it can work well for most kids, but not all. What about single moms who have to work and have little ones who can not stay home alone? What about ladies in full time ministry who can not be home full time? H/schooling can not be a viable option.
I think the kids who will do well in public school are the kids who have great moms and dads at home who teach values, work ethics, etc... But, who also stay involved at the school as well. Mary praised these parents at the hearings I mentioned before. I mean, staying on top of what is being taught. Like if you do not want certain values imparted to your kids you can opt out of the class. These kids in public school almost always do very well!! Even within a rather poor system,(in some districts) the parents make ALL the difference. Our pastor's son has been on the honor roll in college prep courses forever! His mom is very involved!
I am guessing Deanna, you and your DH look at every paper coming into the home, and what the kids assignments are and when they are due. Am I right? Because YOU ARE NOT A LAZY PARENT, NEVER HAVE BEEN! You are not just using the public system for a babysitter , or dumping your responsibilities off on others. You are using it as a tool, wisely. As God has shown you to use it.This makes the difference! And I need to say that I have seen kids be successful and unsuccessful in all three choices of educational venues. But the successful kids, all have parents like you.
I think we all need to realize that God did not give us a guarantee that raising kids in a Christian setting means they will not be sinners. I just got so used to going to places and being interviewed and having people tell me what lovely kids I have. It was so cute last year when my youngest(8) quoted Thomas Paine in an interview. We were so proud when she then explained the meaning behind the quote!!! But, I got into a false sense of security. I did not stay on top of things. I have tightened things up around here this week. I pray God reveals what to do next! love you, love you all! lw
-- Edited by LW at 19:49, 2004-10-26
__________________
...... Then they came for the Catholics, and I was a Protestant, so I never said anything. And then, they came for ME, and there was no one left to speak up. Martin Neimoller, German Pastor, WW2
Absolutely, I agree 100% with what you've said. And yes, this is how Larry and I believe the kids should be handled, and we do. Not always successfully, I might add...our kids are far from perfect, and so are we. But we are a work in progress, and I'm proud of my kids.
I also agree that the SAHM vs. working mom issue has caused a lot of needless division and problems. When women should be supporting one another, we tear one another apart. Isn't life challenging enough already without having sisters tearing apart sisters because of your family choices or structure? I truly believe instead of criticizing, we should lend a helping hand.
I am not even going to be able to start on this. YOu know I agree about sahm/working mom dilema. If I start I won't know when to hush. I just wanted to confess I tend to be guilty of using christian school as a "break" and tend to not take it as serious as I would maybe public. I felt convicted about that. I want to do better about dd school.
Not fully understanding what you mean. Do you mean that you relax about CS simply because it's CS? I can see how that could happen. You must have your daughter in a real good CS. I know when mine were in CS it was very stressful for us personally but our experience was extremely unique and probably wouldn't be repeated by anyone else on this board or otherwise. So, I won't even speak of the circumstances because I doubt anybody but us has found themselves in it. But suffice it to say, it was a miserable experience due to particular unique factors of our situation ...
Don't beat yourself over the head Cassandra - you're a great wife, a great Mom, and you do the best you can. You feel the nudge to get more involved -- so great, do it -- but you know you can't be 100% up on all of this all the time. I think all of us feel pulled in a million directions, you know? Sometimes I just feel like a giant piece of taffy (notice I didn't say a small piece) in that I feel like everybody wants a piece of me, and everybody is pulling me in different directions. I just get to as many things as I possibly can and endeavor to keep my family first on the list.
I have to confess, I'm not real involved with my kids schools at this point but I am very involved with their lives. I do believe christians should be active in the schools, however I personally felt a check from God as to heavy involvement in my case. I felt that God wanted me to stay real involved with my kids, yet I noticed when I would volunteer at their schools, they would rarely put me anywhere near my kids. For instance, they use volunteers to copy papers, staple, read to kids in another room, etc. I would be no where near my own kids. I felt like this defeated the whole purpose of me volunteering and being "involved" in what my kids were involved in. If I wanted to fold papers and staple them I could just stay in my office at the church! So, I stopped doing that and endeavor to do the things which really puts me around the kids. Honestly life is too busy and going 90 to nothing for me to do things which really don't help me to spend more time with my family - or what have you. Does that makes sense?
just wanted to add that both my husband & I are educators (well, in our former life! :o) and we have done it all- homeschool, public & Christian. Two of our girls are currently in public. We consistently tell parents in our congregation that you must stay involved...don't get lazy just because the kids are in Christian school! (which we had been guilty of at one point).
talk about issues that divide...one that is slowly ebbing it's way among our parents is courtship vs. dating. Up here in PA it's a big deal! Many have read 'I Kissed Dating Good-bye' and are acting like it's the gospel of John or something!!! I'm not knocking either one and we've counseled wonderful soon-to-be-married couples that have been on both sides. BUT....when condemnation is added to the picture or self-righteousness, that's where the line has to be drawn. Anybody dealt with this one?
Yes some of our kids are there too. They are like tripping out over this. I worked with our girls with sexual purity over the summer and will again this spring (prom!!) and some were all gung ho over this book and others like it. Others acted like they felt less than them becuase they were dating. I was not worried about wether dating was right or wrong I was trying to keep them from coming up pregnant, which was happening.
What I meant by my school situation is this. Our daughter is on a CS in our church. We have a full school and maybe a couple hundred students all together. And it is paid for as part of dh salsry (some of it anyway) but I tend to like be so busy with all my stuff that I will forget to check homwork until we are walking out the door and I am not teaching dd the importance of her acedemics. She is so high strung I feel like school is a way to get her out of my hair and I know that is wrong. I volunteer for lots of things when I can (especially before business) cause it is at our church facilities. But I know I can't do more becuase I have to build this business. I don't feel as bad about that as I do using school as a break for me. I think some of the other moms (who act like such martyrs becuase they work ft expect us other moms to do more and that isn't right either. I dealt with this just the other day. I had to call a young lady who volunteered to help cook supper for our youth on Wed. night (about 100 every Wed we cook for) and soup was the menu. She was totally martyring about working ft and stuff and I said look I am throwing gazillion cans of campbells chicken noodle in crock pot and letting simmer all day cause I am busy too and you can do it or get your mom to cook it (which she did. Her mom also keeps her kids) So that is a tough issue too. Women are so defensive and "clawy" about certain issues especially if they think you hitting their job as a mom or something. (wahm, sahm, or wothm) And we shouldn't be. But we all act like school is a babysitter sometimes cause just let one get sick we build life around them in school and it totllay throws a wrench in it if they have to stay home sahm's included!)
I think you just need to be where God calls you, and you can't be in the wrong place. Wether the kids are at home or in school. And doing our best with our kids is all we can do! As I have seen recently! As I have said also, our Pastor's boy has won teens hearts for Christ in the local public school. How cool is that? And only God can tell you where you should be, at whatever stage in life. For a few months, when D.J. was in the hospital full time, I had to put the older ones in school for part of that year. It was the only way I could be with the baby in the hospital, and not sacrifice the education of the older girls. ladies who get their claws out over this stuff, may just be unhappy about where they are, and you know that misery loves company! Dr. Dobson once said to a group of ladies in part time ministry who were also full time moms, to let this go. The divide between women who have made choices I mean. He said "I declare it DEAD!". The ladies on the panel agreed that only God tells each woman where she needs to be to conform with his plan for her and her family! This is very true. I suppose it can be easy to get "lazy" knowing your kids are in a wonderful CS that you have chosen, but if you have prayed about it, you have recieved this answer, how does this make you lazy? I know lots of folks who homeschool for years, then let the kid graduate from the local CS. There are some great ones here! You have to be a great Mom to be so concerned about God's plan for your kids. And one more thing, even Jesus got away from the masses for a temporary respite. Don't beat yourself up! You're a great wife and mom! love, lw
__________________
...... Then they came for the Catholics, and I was a Protestant, so I never said anything. And then, they came for ME, and there was no one left to speak up. Martin Neimoller, German Pastor, WW2
Thank you so much. I don't feel like a great wife and mom because I see so much that I ought to be doing than is being done. Of course God is dealing with me I know to focus more on BEING a good wife not DOING. There is a big difference in being and doing. I am always looking at what I am not DOING. Thank you for your kind words. And yes I am proud of our school. It is great and academically our public school even acknowledges how smart the kids are that come out of our school . I taught Abeka (which is what we use) and I loved it myself. It has helped Ashton learn to read and write so well. All the children at this school are ATLEAST two grade levels above the ps peers. I want to keep her alap. Public school starts looking good in high school because of athletics. That's why we have alot leave in junior high, band and sports. That occurs alot with cs I suppose.
I agree with all that's been said here. Good points everybody.
Leading lady - yep, we've dealt with that one and a whole lot of other ones too! People get caught up in so many things and make them "doctrines" -- among them (which I am not saying i want to debate, actually I get rather sick of it, it's like come on already -- just do what God called you to do already, and dont' expect everybody else to jump on the bandwagon with you. Just let God speak.
People make doctrines out of the SAHM VS. WORKING MOM ISSUE
I kissed dating goodbye, versus dating...
Growing kids God's way (personally, I can't stand it - I'm a full fledged Dobson fan...but I don't push my views on anyone nor speak of it, unless it tries to infiltrate our church -- that's where Larry and I stand up and say, no way. If people get into it on their own privately, fine but, we don't allow it to be taught in the church- we go with the focus on the family stuff and people endorsed through Dobson's ministry)
Homeschool/Private School/Public School...
To breast feed, or not?
Brownsville?
Toronto?
The five fold ministry?
Man, I just get so tired of it all, it's just like, can we just love Jesus, love each other and shut up about the other stuff already...do you ever feel this way?
I just refuse to debate people in the church, especially...it's very tiring and unproductive. And rarely will you change anyone's view.
...... Then they came for the Catholics, and I was a Protestant, so I never said anything. And then, they came for ME, and there was no one left to speak up. Martin Neimoller, German Pastor, WW2
