I was talking the other day to a friend of mine who is also a children's pastor, and we got on the topic of parents who won't let their kids go to camp, kids' convention, etc. unless THEY come with them.
I don't understand that. These events are well-structured, usually OVER-chaperoned, and the kids are in absolutely no danger.
Not to mention, it's a great opportunity for them to get away and meet with God. I was filled with the Holy Spirit at a Missionettes Retreat (5 hours from home...I was in 4th grade, and my mom did NOT go as a chaperone, lol!). My friend was filled with the Holy Spirit, called into the ministry, and had her first experience as a young teenager working with children - all at Bible camp. What if her parents hadn't let her go?
Last summer, I went as a counselor to the camp I had attended every year as a kid and as a teenager. I walked into the chapel for the first time, and I was overcome with emotion. I could point out the exact spot I was sitting each time I had a powerful encounter with God. And with us, it was always, "Have fun...see you x amount of days..."
Do any of you have this issue with parents in your churches? Do any of you who are parents have issues with sending your kids to events like this? I'm not talking kindergarteners - I'm talking 3rd grade and up, which is normal "kids' camp/convention" age.
Puppetmaster: I can see both sides. I grew up going to church camp. I know what goes on. I know the people. I trust them. I met one of my best friends to this date at camp. I want my kids to go. I don't HAVE to go with them. Would I want to go with them? Sure, I would love to share this great experience that I had growing up with my kids.
Now, if I had not grown up as a Christian & gone to camp, retreats, etc., would I have this same attitude? Probably not. I would be a lot more cautious. Churches have gotten a lot of bad press concerning child molestation etc. I would be VERY cautious. Times are so different than when we grew up. I used to run around my neighborhood for hours, just checking in at home. Would I let my kids do this? No Way. Times have changed. I want to know that my kids are safe at all times. So, I do understand overprotective parents... I'm one of them.
And with my experience, I'd much rather have an overprotective parent than one that does not care at all & lets their kids do whatever, whenever.
I can understand being cautious...and yes, I totally appreciate working with parents who are involved and supportive.
But I'm talking about parents who know very well who the chaperones are from their church (for camps and conventions, each church has to provide a chaperone for every 5 kids attending!) - they're the same leaders who work with their kids every Sunday and Wednesday.
I absolutely believe that parents should keep track of where their kids are, who they're with, etc. I've worked with kids at both ends of the spectrum (super protective and super permissive and pretty much uncaring!) - I'm just wondering if there's a happy medium somewhere.
Sigh...if children's pastors ruled the world, I guess...
I see both sides of it, and I do believe there is a happy medium.
Trace is right - times have changed. With the sexual predators out there now - and we all have them within just a few miles of our homes these days - you can't just stick a kid outside and let them play. I don't let my daughter do that and she's 9. When she walks to her friend's house 4 houses down, she has to call me as soon as she gets there, and then call and tell me when she's walking home.
Most parents drive their kids to school these days -- too many dangers of allowing them to walk, etc.
I do allow my kids to go to camp and convention but it's because our YP and CP are there, and also our chaperones. If I were an unsaved parent, probably not. I wouldn't understand the climate of these camps and the supervision you mention.
With parents in the church who must chaperone, I hate to say it and please don't throw tomatoes at me...but they are usually overprotecting homeschooling types that never ever allow their kids out of their sight and even make them sit with them in church vs. going into the kids church. There are crazy parents who don't trust the childrens or youth pastor with their kids, and for these people I wonder why they even go to church - why not just stay home and have "home church" since they don't trust the church leadership? Just my two cents.
Incidentally, all homeschoolers aren't like this as you know - we have two very normal, incredible families in our church (in fact one is Savanna's close friend), who homeschool. But honestly these two families that we presently have are really the only "normal" ones I have ever met. All the others have been the types who keep their kids in the sanctuary, don't let them come to activities, grill the CP and YP on every little thing, and are overly dramatic about anything.
I'll stop now before ya' throw something at me..........
Just to weigh in, Deanna, you knew I would.....I have one in college, I still worry about her, especially since she does not call much.....I have one in special ed.......we have 2 homeschooled. Part of my reason to decide to homeschool way back when all the kids were young and at home was danger. But not the only factor. As to not being able to let go of children, there is time for this and it's different for every family, and in many cases, every child. Tabytha is just now seventeen and goes on trips with the yp and or the yp's wife without me or her Dad. And because of cell phones, I know we can almost always reach eachother if need be, so she has a great deal of freedom as long as she is with other adults that I know and respect.
Donna Joy, who is not a normal child, does not always follow the rules and often wanders off. She thinks because she is 14 that she should be treated like a teenager, but mentally, she is still very young. We have felt that it's unfair to burden others so when there are activites for her to go to, we go as well.
Our homeschooloing 11 year old goes for several hours per day to Boys and Girls club for tutoring, knitting class, and just hanging out.
It's not that we can't let go, but in the elementry years, the primary affections and relationships should be within the family and the siblings. There is nothing at Bible Camp that won't be there when the parent thinks the time is right. Many homeschoolers respond better to day camps than to sending them away for a week. Homeschoolers really are not unnaturally close to their kids, just carefully monitoring how much time is spent away from the family. Childhood is short and sweet. We are just a bit too eager these days to get Mom and baby apart. They have their whole lives to develop relationships outside the home. Many do with other homeschoolers, mine did. Almost all their friends were homeschooled and they would get together in eachother's homes. Tabytha's best freind from Pa. still talks her several times a week. They grew up in homeschoolong together.
Try not to feel offended when a homeschooling parent says they prefer to attend the activity along with the child or they prefer their child not participate. It really has nothing to do with you or with camp, just that they are very careful about how much time is spent outside the home, and they may have other commitments you are not being made aware of.
Blessings, Lori
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...... Then they came for the Catholics, and I was a Protestant, so I never said anything. And then, they came for ME, and there was no one left to speak up. Martin Neimoller, German Pastor, WW2
I grew up as a child of the 80's - Adam Walsh was kidnapped and murdered when I was about 5-6 years old - mine was definitely a generation whose parents took major safety precautions and didn't just let their kids run around all by themselves - possibly the first generation that really had to be overprotected in that regard! I remember hearing stories about how my mom and her friends would just run around the neighborhood all day during the summer and just be expected to be home by dinner time - that was never the case for me growing up. WTG to all you parents who actually care about your kids - I have worked with way too many parents who don't!!
Strangely, I've never had any problems with unsaved parents sending their kids to camp or any other overnight church activities...it really makes me happy and relieved in those cases that the kids happened to stumble across our church, as opposed to a cult or worse...because honestly, a lot of these parents are just happy to be "free" from the kids for awhile.
Deanna, you hit it right on the head! We're having the most trouble with our homeschooling families...YP has some that won't allow their kids to come to youth group because he has (gasp!) unchurched kids who come. He and his wife are both involved, and they've got a team of 8-10 youth leaders who keep the youth service under control (all the leaders are active members of our church, no less!).
Most of those families allow their kids to come to kids' church, but that has been a really big development that has only happened in the past few years.
The trouble with these parents always wanting to "chaperone" is that they really DON'T act as leaders. They come solely as parents, and concentrate only on their own kids. That takes away spots in the van, hotel rooms, etc. that could be taken up by real leaders, who would help me by being responsible for all the kids. I have one kid who is about 9 years old and is a Type 1 diabetic. When he goes to camp, a parent or older sibling goes along with him to make sure he's eating all his meals, taking his shots, etc., and I completely support that!
[I am not against homeschooling - it's not for me, personally - but if someone is willing to take the time and invest themselves completely, 100% into it, then I think it can be a success. This is just an observation that I tend to have the most "issues" of this nature with my homeschooled families!!]
Puppetmaster- you hit the nail right back on the head about the chaperoning thing. I have seen the same thing. We had it here w/a group of the same nature and it would drive our YP crazy. They would say that their kids could not go unless they chaperoned, however, their chaperoning was basically useless, because they only focused on their child.
I think the remedy to this is...make them jump through hoops, as my dh would say. If the parent says, "I must chaperone if they can go...", say "great. We have our chaperone mandatory training meeting this Monday night at 7 pm." If they chaperone, they have to come to training. At that training cover things such as, "you are not just there for your kid, and you will be responsible for "x" number of kids, and here is what we expect of you..." Give them a check list, make it impossible somehow for them to not have to focus on a pile of kids, not just their own. Give them a list they must accomplish in order to participate. Make them come up to your standard, not the other way around.
One thing you will find...some will not do it and their kids just won't participate. In which case...let them go. Some kids just aren't going to come to things like this and quite frankly, it's probably better for your sanity as a leader.
My husband and I had a kid many years ago in our youth group who was in a situation just like you describe. We felt very, very sorry for her. She wanted to participate in the worst way, and she was so sweet. But her Mom was as you describe. Finally my dh employed the methods I described above, which her mother would not meet our stipulations, therefore the kid was left out a lot of the time due to her mother's decision however it did make trips 100% easier for dh and I because we didn't have to deal with the Mom. She would complain about everything... "are you sure we should be stopping at McDonalds on the way home from camp? It's not really the most nutritious thing for these children..." "These youth group t-shirts are kind of large...(this was the style at the time, bigger and baggy)...don't you think they should be more fitted?..." "Should these kids really be singing this loud on the bus? Don't you think a little more order would be appropriate?"
Yes, it was much easier when she wasn't there. But I have always felt sorry for her daughter.
Sometimes parents really are the hardest part of children's and youth ministry.
