Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. 1 Cor 14:34-35 (KJV)
I have been thinking a lot about this verse as I have caught up reading all the messages on the board this week. I was wondering about something. Do you all realize that everyone who has a CA that the person is a woman?? Now being a woman who does MANY things in the church ,I have really always disliked this verse but I am beginning to understand that it is not about working in the church as it has been interpreted but it is about stirring up stuff&being out of order.
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. 1 Cor 14:33 (KJV) When I back up and see the previous verse I wonder again if this is not what he meant?I have a commentary that said the women were questioning the prophesy of the church and that they were displaying disorderly conduct rather than waiting for their husbands and the leadership to handle things. I have often noticed that women who like chaos also like drama and to be in the middle of trouble. I for one don't and I gather from the board that you all don't either. Am I way off here? If so,please forgive my wandering mind.
I am praying for you all. I know what you all are going through I have been there when someone blatantly attacks the ministry and calling that GOD called you too. Try to remember thta God called you all to the place where you are and that these CA's[ can't win. They are actually fighting against God not you. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places Eph 6:12 (KJV)
I think about Moses during times like these when the people are as he says stiff -necks and God reminds him over and over that He is with him. God is with us, ladies because He called us!!!!!!! We are children of the King and noone can take us out of His hand. Hallelujah! Stand strong against your CA and tell them by your actuions that you are where God wants you not where they think you should be. If they don't like i,t let them leave. God removed some people from our church because of accusations and sent us 3 families: 1 already saved and 2 we got to lead them to the Lord! what a blast! Just so you know, we just had to deal with a person trying to run off our youth Pastor. my Dh sat them down and told them how it is going to be. . They don't speak to us now but that's ok, I refuse to let one or two people cloud my mind while I have ministry to do. Satan might be on the warpath but God owns the battleground.!!
My SP came up to me Sunday morning (before everyone else got there) and said, "Just so you know, anyone who messes with my children's pastor messes with me, because besides being a pastor, I'm also a father whose children need you!" He feels the same way about our YP, because they will someday be in her youth group.
I said, "Well, that's good, because I'm done with people messing with me!"
You made a great point...DH, YP and I were talking about our CA's husband, and how he seemed so quiet and sweet, and we decided that either a.) he's not as sweet as he seems, and he's the one who sits at home ranting and raving against the staff and his wife just comes to church and acts as his mouthpiece, or b.) he's too much of a wimp to be a man and take the spiritual leadership in his home that he needs to take. Either way, he's just as much part of the problem as she is!! They both need to be prayed right out...
I'm in fighting mode now, and I am TICKED OFF at the devil for trying to move me out of there, and for stunting the growth of our church!!
To comment on the 1 Cor. 14:34-35, the "history" behind it all was because they were having problems with women probably very much like the CAs you all describe.
I can honestly say that we do not have to deal with a CA (Praise God!!) but have had to in the past. In my experience as a co-pastor, pw and pk, allow me to say that yes, in MOST cases, they ARE women- and in some cases, they are men. Can I elaborate a bit?
I am NOT trying to be spooky spiritual or a granola bar Christian...but these woman in many cases cases are operating out of a Jezebel spirit, the men can also operate out this spirit too.
Here is a bit Francis Frangipane writes about it:
There is a war, a very ancient war, between the spirit of Elijah and the spirit of Jezebel. In this age-old battle, Elijah represents the voice of Heaven: the call to repentance and the return to God. Jezebel, on the other hand, embodies that unique principality whose purpose is to hinder and defeat the work of repentance. Its goal is to silence the prophetic call.
To understand the conflict between the Elijah spirit and the spirit of Jezebel, we must understand these two adversaries as they are seen in the Scriptures. Each is the spiritual counterpart of the other. Is Elijah bold? Jezebel is brazen. Is Elijah ruthless toward evil? Jezebel is vicious toward righteousness. Does Elijah speak of the ways and words of God? Jezebel is full of systems of witchcraft and words of deceit.
To understand the spirit of Jezebel, we must under-stand the genesis of this personality in the Bible. The first mention of Jezebel is seen in the rebellious, manipulative wife of King Ahab. It was actually this spirit, operating through Queen Jezebel, which had caused over ten million Hebrews---all but seven thousand faithful souls---to bow to Baal. Jezebel caused them to forsake the covenant, destroy the sacred altars -and kill the prophets (I Kings 19:14-18). This one spirit was almost totally responsible for corrupt-ing an entire nation, and this principality has come full force against our nation.
Jezebel is fiercely independent and intensely ambitious for pre-eminence and control. It is note-worthy that the name ``Jezebel,'' literally trans-lated, means ``without cohabi-tation.'' This simply means she refuses ``to live together'' or ``co-habit'' with anyone. Jezebel will not dwell with anyone unless she can control and dominate the relationship. When she seems submissive or ``ser-vant-like,'' it is only for the sake of gaining some strategic ad-vantage. From her heart, she yields to no one.
Bear in mind that the spirit which produced Jezebel existed before its namesake was born. Although we refer to Jezebel as ``she,'' this spirit is without gender. However, it is important to note that, while men in leadership are the main targets of most principalities, Jezebel is more attract-ed to the uniqueness of the female psyche in its sophisticat-ed ability to manipulate without physical force.
What Jezebel Hates
Jezebel's worst enemies are the prophets; her worst fear is that the people will embrace repent-ance. Jezebel hates repentance. Though this spirit will infiltrate the church, masking its desire for control with true Christian doctrines, it will hide from true repentance.
Jezebel hates humility. Jesus taught that great-ness in the kingdom was not measured in what we seem to be, but in childlike honesty of heart. A true ministry is willing and eager to be submit-ted and account-able to other ministries. It is typical of those who are servant-minded. Therefore, we must learn that spirituality is mea-sured in meekness, not power.
Jezebel hates prayer. Intercessory prayer pries her fingers off the hearts and souls of men. It sets people free in the spirit. When you pray, it binds her. When you pray against immorality, it cripples her. When you pray for a submissive heart, it is like the trampling of Jehu's horse upon her body.
Jezebel hates the prophets, for the prophets speak out against her. The prophets are her worst enemies. When she wars, it is to stir people against the message of the prophet-ic church. More than she hates the prophets, she hates the word they speak. Her real enemy is the spoken Word of God.
Jezebel's ultimate hatred is against God Himself. She hates the grace God lavishes upon His bond-servants, even after they sin. She hates the fact that God will take the weakest and lowliest and use them to bring her down. She hates the holiness and purity of heart that comes from God and surrounds those who serve in His courts.
In John Paul Jackson's book, "Unmasking the Spirit of Jezebel" he brings a Biblical understand about Jezebel, and really breaks dwon the battle between ELijah and Jezebel.
If you are dealing with a CA- I'd recommend this book.
You are not being spiritually spooky or granola bar at all. You have hit the nail on the head about CA's. Please everyone, get the book that Pastor Tara just mentioned. I read it a few years ago and it opened up my eyes to a lot of things about the Jezebel spirit and more. You know, many pastors just think they are dealing with "difficult people". Some think it's because these people have been "so hurt" and that's why they act like they do. I do know that "hurting people hurt people" and I believe that to be true. HOWEVER...sometimes it has little to do with hurt (we've all been hurt, at some time or another), but it has more to do with them picking up offenses and allowing this spirit to work through them and control them. Many people like this have destroyed churches. Many younger or less experienced pastors think they can do a little dance with these types (give and take...work with them...compromise on issues...try to bring "healing") but they don't understand...you can't have give an take, work with, compromise, or heal a demon spirit. It just doesn't work. Sometimes "jezebel" will even fake the leader out to think they are improving, getting better...things are "coming together"...and then "BOOM!" the next shoe drops and Jezebel is back with a vengeance. This is nothing to play around with.
I wish I would have had John Paul Jackson's book 18 years ago when we started out. We learned a lot of things, going through very hard trials years ago. Please take my word for this, ladies...get that book, and also anything you can get by Frangipane on the subject. My favorite book that he wrote on this is "The Three Battlegrounds."
Love you all and I'm praying for you in your situations,
I filled out the inter-library loan request form for it, and I'm on my way to the NCU library to turn it in right now!!
DH just called our SP this morning and asked him if he could just work at home on the web site (since our church computer is so archaic, he can only do updates right now from our home computer, lol!), and SP said, "Well, I have a few things I want to go over with you here, so if you could come in, that would be great," which was code for, "I need someone to talk to - please come!!" My DH was hired partially to do office work, but partially (I think anyway!) because our SP needed a friend that he could talk to and pray with during the day.
Apparently CA is in a snit about yet ANOTHER issue that is so stupid and insignificant.**eye roll** Yeah, she just needs to go. It's moved beyond personal issues. God has really spoken to me about that, and assured me that I have done everything I could do as far as that is concerned...but I'm fighting mad. Like I told DH, I am ticked off at the devil for trying to stop a move of God, and I'm ticked off at this woman for letting herself be used by him! No, I feel sorry for her, that she is allowing herself to be used by the devil this way. But sorry or not, God has bigger fish to fry than our constant stressing and praying for God to give us strength to deal with the "Jezebel spirit" that oozes out of this woman. He has plans for our church, for the entire community. He wants SOULS, and He wants us to concentrate on winning them. The devil has been using this woman (well, the two families) for years to distract the church from its true mission. It stops now.
I don't usually read spiritual "instructional" books, nor am I the type to see a demon under every rock (Just yesterday, an overzealous lady in our church prayed for our YP's recurring headaches, saying it's a 'familiar spirit' that has plagued her family for generations and given them headaches. I told her after - YP, not the lady - that it's the familiar spirit of 'allergies,' and that she needs to go get some Allegra from the doctor to cast it out , and she agreed with me!) but I think I need to read this particular book to give me some insight into just what we're dealing with regarding our Friendly Neighborhood Church Antagonist and how to break this.
It's interesting that you should mention that book Pastor Tara b/c we were just at the Christian bookstore yesterday and bought it. I started reading it right away and it is very eye opening...now i think i'm on about 3 books that i need to finish...oh brother...but i think aside from my bible this one is going to take precedence...
oh by the way, the CA at our church declined our elders meeting tonight and said she has found another church to go to...gonna have to be in prayer for the pastor of that church...
puppetmaster thanks for making laugh I'm praying that your CA goes in Jesus Name!
Pastor Deanna, I'm going to try and get the book that you mentioned as well. The more knowledge we have the better equipped we will be.
Just to say it again b/c i don't think i could say it enough, you ladies have been a tremendous support to me and if you don't hear from me a lot, please know that i'm praying for you all!!!
Thank you ladies for some very insightful words. I think I will have to come back to this thread several times to "take it all in." We definitely plan to get the book.
As a note, our C.A. is a husband/wife team. Their daughter is our praise & worship leader & a SS teacher. She told dh on Sunday that she is leaving!!!! We're excited b/c P&W has been dead & things needed desperately to change. Dh said all he could do for the time was pray, due to the whole C.A. situation. Once again, God fought the battle for us & we won w/o having to "fight" at all. (Dh can be so wise sometimes.)
Anyway, their daughter said that her mother wants to leave, but the father is the one who is keeping them there. So, hopefully w/ daughter leaving, they will be closer to leaving. We are continuing to pray. Regardless, we are marching forward w/ the Lord leading the way!
It is interesting that you mention that your CA is a husband/wife team. You know, Jezebel had Ahab.... and many believe a Jezebel spirit can't operate withoput an Ahab spirit. It's in the book... andI know you will get some incredible insight when you read it....
...and don't let the door hit them on the way out .
When one leaves, the rest are sure to slowly follow! Our church was full of CAs who have, one by one, moved on, leaving only two families. Basically, when they start feeling like they're losing power, they start looking for greener pastures.
Our CA made what she thought was a nasty comment to our SP yesterday, "Well, I know you're going to do it anyway, regardless of my input, so..." This was in regards to an UGLY mural in our church office that SP has decided to put some paneling over. Not even paint over; just cover it up. It was done in 1972, and no one from the family who did it even attends the church anymore...
Anyway, when DH told me that, I said, "Well, congratulations! She's finally starting to figure out senior pastoral authority !"
But seriously - to people like that, it's all about power. I've discovered over the last several months that we as pastors and pastors' spouses need to do more than just put on a "poker face" and pretend that it doesn't bother us. We need to change our way of thinking so it DOESN'T bother us.
Don't know why it's taken me so long to pick it up, but I've started reading Battlefield of the Mind by Joyce Meyer. Excellent book for anyone who struggles with negativity, anxiety, and/or depression!!
Once again you ladies are so insightful. I have not been able to check the board as much as I would like lately, so I am a littel late geting in on this conversation.
Anyway, PT is right. Paul Jackson's book is amazing. I recently found out about it. I only wish I could have read it 7 or 8 years ago, but better now than never. I could have really used it at our previous ministry. There were some spirits there that had taken up residence, one of them being a Jezebel spirit.
I agree with Puppetmaster, we have to get to the place where we don't just put on the public face that it doesn't bother us...we have to get to the point where it REALLY DOESN'T.
Something that helps me in this regard is to remember that in a few years this person will be NOTHING to you. They will not be around...they will not be in your life.
So don't let them bother you today.
"CA's" don't last long, unless you let them rule the roost. Do as God asks and they have a pretty short stay.
, and she agreed with me!) but I think I need to read this particular book to give me some insight into just what we're dealing with regarding our Friendly Neighborhood Church Antagonist and how to break this. 
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