I've posted here a couple of times, but it has been a while now. I have quite a dilema on my hands, kinda of my own making...sort of...
anyway here's the story. there's this lady in our church who has caused trouble in the past and we've had to deal with her. she does not accept correction well and always feels that she hears from God and feels it necessary to accuse my dh of being in sin etc. - which by the way we both were unaware of and sincerely asked God to reveal it to us b/c we don't want to ever think that we are incapable of that...so eventually she retracted her statement and said it was a general statement whatever that meant.....
we have tried desperately to involve her in ministy but no-one can work with her...she is having severe marital problems and her husband was in the office alone just last week telling dh, he just doesn't know what to do anymore...his statement was "the enemy is using her to destroy him."
she however thinks their relationship is fine now and says that God has opened an opportunity for her to council another couple having marital problems and so she called the church asking what we thought she should...CHARGE!!! can you believe that??!!! my dh told her that she was not in a position to council w/o qualifications and her own marriage being newly mended...well she really took offence to that...which in turn led to an e-mail with her stating that there is no anointing in the messages anymore and she is not being fed, which is why she chose to go to bible college...but she is staying at the church
b/c she is waiting for a mighty move of God...unbelievable....
however..., this is now is my problem...i responded to the e-mail which she sent to my husband and i was rather harsh...unintended but after reviewing what i wrote i realize that maybe i was a little too blunt...she in turn responded with a very resentful e-mail calling me one less word than satan...so i've prayed and asked God for direction and i've called her and asked for her forgiveness b/c the e-mail i sent was too harsh and i should not have responded to an e-mail she sent for my husband...she of course does not believe me...but i really felt the Holy Spirit saying to do this for me and to humble myself, not for her...that He would deal with her.
my heart is very heavy b/c i feel i've just opened such a large can of worms...also i usually hate confrontation but this woman has overstepped so many times that i had the e-mail wrote and sent before i could rethink it...i wish i could tell you everything she has done, but it would just take too long...i am such a huge believer in building the body and i feel like i've really messed up on this one...
i was wondering if any of you have ever messed up like this and how did you get through it....
Did I ever send an e-mail hastily and regret it? Oh Lord yes.
Okay, so what I've learned from that is...I don't do that anymore! Unles something is a light-hearted frivolous e-mail that I'm responding to, I generally leave it sitting in my mail box for a few days before I answer it. I mull it over, and sometimes ask dh what I should respond. I may even ask a friend or two in ministry how I should answer. If it's serious enough I don't ever answer it by e-mail. I call or ask for a meeting in person. Note to self: Don't ever write anything down that you don't want everybody to read. Be very careful what you put in writing. Ask yourself, "would I want the whole church to read this?" If not don't write it. If I must write it, I write it in such a way that it's worded carefully that I would not care if they showed it to someone else.
Remember too that silence cannot be misquoted. If in doubt, stay silent. Sometimes I do not respond to something, at all. The person might be upset with me, even furious but when I think there will be less damage by my lack of response, I go that route in something like this. Will they criticize me? Yes. But going around saying, "Can you believe PD is silent on this?" is a lot better than "can you believe PD said yada, yada, yada, etc." Sometimes you have to take the lesser of two evils.
You know, it's a shame that we have to even talk about things like this but it's just a fact that sheep can be mean. They can turn, they can bite, they can really rattle off some nasty things at times. A book that showed me a lot on this was "Antagonists in the Church" by Kenneth Hauck (I believe that's who wrote it) and also "Well Intentioned Dragons" by Marshall Shelley.
Things like this aren't easy, Glynis. I understand. E-mail has made it a lot easier for people to just come home from church and rattle off anything they want to you and press send. It's quick, it's easy and a lot of people take advantage of it. I have to just say a humongous praise the Lord that I don't deal with this much in my current ministry situation but in my previous church, oh Lord, let's just not go there.
When I moved here, my love for e-mail was redeemed. But it took a while.
Please know, we understand and we love you. If I was you, I would step back, assess the situation, talk in depth to your dh...get his advice on whether you should say anything else or just go silent on the issue. I'll be praying for you.
I agree w/ Deanna. If it is important, do not use email. I learned this while working w/ the state. Even w/ the best wording possible, people read reflection & tone into your words. If they are upset w/ you, more than likely they will make it negative, whether you meant it negative or not.
We've had a similar situation recently. To borrow from Puppetmaster, our C.A. (church antagonist) would not discuss her problems in person. She used email to attack dh. Finally, dh responded by email. It wasn't harsh or anything. In fact, it was rather nice. After his response, she & her husband called our presbyter & that's when everything broke out at church. Whenever she gets mad, she just sends an ugly email.
You've done what you can do to make things right w/ this woman. You have apologized. If she is still upset, that is between her & God. Your conscience should be clear. (Not to say that she will not continue to attack, but at least you should not feel guilty.)
I just finished a conversation with a co-worker...
His pastor told him, "In a congregation, you've got three types of people: some are sheep, some are goats, and some are just plain skunks."
What it sounds like to me is that God is moving in our churches in a powerful way, and that the devil is not happy about it. So he is trying to stir up trouble. Unfortunately, people are letting him use them!
It's frustrating...we just need to remember that "We wrestle not against flesh and blood..."
I know, I am the guiltiest party when it comes to letting people get to me! But God is teaching me more and more that the battle belongs to Him!!
Thank you everyone. I'm definitely not going to say anything else to this woman regarding this situation and just try to deal with it the best i can, with God's help. To be honest, i'm a terrible worrier and have to work very hard not to dwell on things. Thankfully, my dh is very supportive and encouraging and is more excited now about church on Sunday b/c of what God is doing in our assembly. I, on the other hand am trying be excited too, but I have to lead worship and I want God to be glorified in spite of my weakness, but I'm concerned.
...sorry to keep going on about this...I promise, this is it
Don't worry...that's what we're here for...talk and vent as much as you need to!
I've found that just posting here about my own personal "CA" really helps me to clear my head and gives me a reality check in a safe environment, full of people who are impartial to the situation.
Puppetmaster is exactly right - that is what we are here for. Please don't apologize for your vent or feel that you can't talk to us. This is a safe place to let it all out about your "C.A.'s" or whatever else.
I used to be a worrier too about things like that, I mean realllllllly bad. But then I came to realize, it didn't change one bit of my situation and I just hurt myself by it. I just encourage you, when you start to worry, listen to that song by Kirk Franklin that Puppetmaster mentioned yesterday...it starts out..."you don't have to worry...and don't you be afraid..." very powerful lyrics for you right now, and always. Goes on to remind you, "my life is in your hands." God is watching over this situation with your CA, and he will vindicate the righteous!
We all face situations like this - you are not alone. And you will make it.
This is my advice or opinion regarding the CA's. It may sound extreme or harsh - but God has always been faithful in answering. We pray for God to remove them from the body.We've gone through too many dissenters and rabble rousers - that it always hurts our church if they stick around. We;ve tried putting them in positions of leadership ==bad idea because then they form a minion of like minds and eventually split with those like them. But that's ok --sometimes the way to get rid of a cancer is to cut it out or have God cut it out. We've even prayed for God to remove witches from our church or to have Him reveal them and we ask them to leave. One such lady we had to ask to leave because she thought she had the power that cauised the death of our former Sr. pastor and family. (Dh's younger brother) At the funeral home, she ran in to another church member and ask why no one was allowed to see the bodies. Our friend said - it was to remain closed because of the damage, etc. This witch went into disturbing graphic detail of what she imagined their bodies being - upsetting our friend tremendously. This lady said she had cursed them and wondered --so see why we asked her to leave. And btw - she didn't curse them - it was a treacherous storm - and dh's brother lost control of car. He drove too fast and we know that was the key factor. Anyway - pray them out. You have the rest of the sheep to protect.
We are about at that point, too! Our YP's prayer up until now has been, "Lord, have mercy upon them, because I'm not sure they realize what danger they're in by what they're doing."
But she said the other night in our meeting, "I'm sick of this and it has got to stop. I'm going to start praying that God will DEAL with them however He wants to!"
My SP said, "Even if those families leave and take their tithe checks with them, we can still have a church. If the worship team is just me and the piano, we can still sit in there and praise Jesus. We've got enough 'stuff' around the church to run our ministries, and if it came down to salaries being cut, I'd take a part time job rather than let my staff go."
It's been awesome to see him grow and get bolder and bolder...this is his first senior pastorate - talk about baptism by fire! But he's doing a great job, and he will finally have a board where the majority is behind him and the vision God has given him.
I forgot about the tithe or loss of "crisis". Actually - we used to panic - but God always provided a family - a faithful non -devisive one to replace the skunks that more than made up for any missing offering. I remember one family thought they could buy us with a super nice Roland keyboard, etc. we wouldn't be bought so they took everything with them. I really didn't care becasue we got me a Yamaha keyboard at Sam's that places just as well - if not better.
hi..., i know i promised but you guys are all to great to talk to and today has been a really bad day...last night when i went to praise team practice, two more e-mails were waiting at my husband's desk...i haven't spoken to responded to this CA at all since i posted the first time, but she's written 3 more terrible e-mails since...., honestly, i'm really trying my best to be strong and i keep telling myself that God is in control and this too will pass, but it's really playing on my nerves...now she's called us thieves and false prophets ya ya ya... and quite some time ago she gave my husband and i a bracelet and watch just because she wanted us to have it...we graciously accepted not knowing what we know now...so of course she's asking for it back and get this...$3000.00 that she says she invested into our lives in the time she's been at our church (we've only been here 3yrs and she came about a year after that)...we don't know anything about this because for pastor appreciation day or christmas, if people give a gift it's usually cash or made out to the church in which case the clerk takes care of it and blesses us with a lump sum...so she says if she doesn't get it, she is taking it to court.
I've stuggled with anxiety in the past, about 5yrs. ago and since i've come out of it, i'm usually able to handle just about anything because i strive to live a positive life and love everyone. I can honestly say if this woman were to repent, i would wrap my arms around her and give her the biggest hug and tell her i love her. She thinks that i hate her and i couldn't hate anyone even if i tried really hard. But, my chest feels like it's about to cave in and i'm on the verge of tears all day and i can't stand being in front of people and in the blink of an eye, the waterfalls will start. my dh is awesome! but it's hard for him b/c he's taking the best approach to all of this as Jesus would want him to but of course he gets frustrated to see me upset...now i'm off to church tonight for an evangelistic service geared to reaching the lost and i need your prayers. i can't let my wonderful people see me this way. Please pray...
Jesus, give her strength! Move out this antagonist with no further incidents, and by your spirit, let your plans for revswife, her family, and her church come in like a flood and drown the plans that the devil would try to make through this woman! Remove her from the church and from revswife's life, in JESUS' NAME!!
[Well, I get a short reprieve from my CA...she and her husband are gone this weekend. As DH said, "Church will be rocking this Sunday!" But our SP is ready to just hogtie her and throw her in a lake (okay, that was my suggestion , but you get the idea!). She came into the church in a snit about a bunch more silly, "grasping at straws" issues that she was upset about. DH and I have started praying that she will just leave. Period. Not to be cruel...I hope God does change her heart, but I would prefer that He do it at another church! Our church is at a crucial point spiritually and has the potential to bust wide open with revival and new people, and we just don't have time or energy for our prayers to be along the lines of, "God, give me strength to deal with her." I need to move beyond that. I need to start praying for God to move in our church. To add families and kids to His kingdom. She has taken up too much of our staff's time, and she needs to find a church that is less fragile and better equipped to help her become who God wants her to be, or to give her whatever she thinks she wants in a church, because we're apparently not it. As YP said, 'Bye, bye, and don't let the door hit you on the way out.']
God is bigger than someone's tithe check, and someone who continually speaks against anointed people that He has placed in the church is putting herself in a very dangerous position! But at the same time, He works through us, so we need to pray. He'll fight His battles for us - but we've gotta ask Him!!
Thank you so much for all your prayers!! I feel so much better tonght than i did all day. I brought the things back to the church that the CA had given us, so it's there whenever she decides to pick it up. We get the impression that she has left the church this time, not to sound mean, but i hope so.
we had a great time at church. unfortunately there wasn't any unsaved people there but we're believing that God will bring them in through friends and family. Our evangelistic team canvassed the area earlier today, inviting people to come. i know that God is up to something here. you know just being in the presence of the Lord with other fellow believers and your prayers that you have prayed for me and my family has lifted my spirits again. Thank you again. i will be praying for you all and will keep you posted on what happens...
BTW, Revswife, she cannot get that money back from the church if she sues...it was given in an offering, I assume...they are not under any obligation to return it to her. What a crazy woman! We had A woman leave the church many years ago when we were asst. pastors at a church...she asked our pastor for her "back tithe" from the many years she was there...$17,000. He just laughed. How crazy. Someone cannot take an offering back months or years later. Let 'em sue.
I understand the dilemma about gifts and accepting them from CM's in large amounts...small things are normally no problem but you wonder with a larger item if it will really "cost you" if you know what I mean. You really have to "know" someone before you allow this. We have some close CM's that have given me some very nice things...to receive it in good faith I really have to feel there is no ill motivation behind it, jockeying for position or trying to "get in" with me...it's simply to bless their pastor.
People can be absolutely lethal with this kind of stuff. I dealt with this with someone years ago who tried to buy me off, buy me outfits, and all kinds of other stuff and then years later when I did not give them their way gave the whole song and dance, "After all I've done for you..." and "After all I've done for this church." It was not really out of love at all but sheer manipulation.
Praying for you, revswife. You are dealing with a true church antagonist...hold your head up, continue to pray, throw some fasting in there too. We are holding up your arms. Keep spilling it out any time you need to. THE LORD YOUR GOD IS MIGHTY IN BATTLE!
well everyone, tomorrow we have to meet with this woman and her husband and to be completely honest i'm so nervous that i'm shaking here while typing...you know i said to my dh today, "i think i'm gonna fast for the meeting tomorrow night" which i thought was just with the elders to let them know what has been happening and let them read the e-mails. God knew that i would need the supernatural strength from him to get through this. I knew that we would have to meet with her eventually but i didn't think it would be in the same night!
my dh wasn't going to tell me until tomorrow b/c he didn't want me to worry but we just got in from a movie with the kids and i happened to check the messages...it was our church administrator saying that she agreed to meet tomorrow.
please pray everybody...i absolutely hate confrontations! - I hate to break down in front of people but sometimes i just can't help it. I hope you get a chance to read this before my meeting tomorrow night. i just want this to be over and be able to move forward 'cause right now if i could run, i think i would...
love you all and thank you for your support and prayers
We will be praying for you. Remember that God is for you, so it doesn't matter who is against you.
Father, we pray right now for revswife and for rev that you would give them divine wisdom in handling this situation. We pray that as they go into the meeting that you would give them peace, knowing that their confidence is in you. Father we know that you are going to do exceeding, abundantly, above what we can even imagine so we thank you in advance. In the mighty name of Jesus we pray. Amen!
Revswife, I can completely understand how you feel! I despise confrontations also! This woman has a lot of nerve and I will be definitely be praying for you and this meeting. People amaze me because they don't seem to realize that when they start messing around with God's chosen ambassadors they are messing with God Himself!
Father, I raise up my sister to you right now and I pray that you would put a hedge of protection around her and her husband right now. They are your children, Lord and they need to feel your presence. Help her to be silent when she needs to and help her speak only words of the Holy Spirit.Calm her spirit Lord and help her to remember she is a child of the King! Please give the Leadership the words to handle this woman as You will it Father. Shut the mouths of the lions, Father and protect your work. We ask this is your son's and our brother's name Jesus.
