Ralinda mentioned in her post about carnal Christians. We deal with this a lot in our church and in our area. I taught on holiness last week during Bible study and I was amazed by the receptive response from the people who were there. This is definitely a testament to what God is doing in the church! Praise the Lord!
I guess my question or discussion starter is, how do you deal with carnal Christians in your church? It seems that over time God has moved most of the carnal people who were in leadership when we came. God is so awesome!!! However, we still have too many carnal members. Earlier in our time at the church I could say that it was because they had not been taught better, bet that is no longer the case. We have been there for 6 years and have been preaching and teaching the Word since the day we came. You can see the difference in those who have received the word. You can also see that there is little to no difference in those who have not.
Wow, what a loaded topic, and a good one. I can honestly say that while we do have some carnal Christians in our church (every church does) I can at least say that here in Tampa we don't have them in our leadership. And to that I give a whopping HALLELUIAH JESUS.
In our church in Maryland our leadership was rife with carnal Christians, and unfortunately unless a miracle of God happens it will always be that way...you know the syndrome of the rural church where they are there when you come and they'll be there when you leave. There is a group of people there who have always had a choke hold and quite frankly I am not sure that the word would even be "carnal Christians" in some cases because I'm not sure that some are saved. Obviously you can't "judge" a person's salvation - I don't know one way or the other definitively, I'm just saying I'm not truly sure. But if they are, they are definitely in the "carnal Christian" category. And trust me, it's really difficult to minister when you have (perhaps) unsaved people in the office, on the board, ...when those folks are fixtures in that setting, wow, wow, wow.
It is much easier pastoring a suburban or metropolitan church. In our situation here, dh would just simply not allow carnal Christians to hold positions of leadership. He really does have complete freedom to make those decisions and simply carries them out, with very little ripple effect in comparison to what would be in a smaller or country church. In Tampa there are a pile of other A/G churches, and hundreds (or more) other churches and if people are not happy with something, they don't stay and make you miserable, they move on, and two more families take their place the next week. It's different being in a place where there are so many churches...and I love it! So as far as carnality in leadership goes, we just don't put up with it. Period. We have spiritual people in leadership. If they are not spiritual, they don't get there. If they somehow change and become carnal, they would be phased out in due course if they did not change. That's not to say they have to be perfect, nobody is. (including us!) But you know what I mean - we do not put up with blatant, unrepentant carnality.
Within the church body, it's just a fact that you are going to have some carnal Christians. Of course it's frustrating -- they don't have the mind of Christ on things, they think as this world does - they have a democratic mindset - everything is "me...me...me..." and so forth. I believe it's the job of a pastor to constantly speak to the issues of carnality. This is in part why we exist - to bring the Word of God to people -- to show them the truth of God's Word and how we are called to live -- to bring them to a higher place that they are not at yet. It's also a part of equipping and training God's people. We must continue to train and train and train that these carnal behaviors are wrong. Yes, it gets frustrating because you think, "how many times do you have to be told this?" It's not so different pastoring spiritual children than natural ones. How many times have you had to tell your kids..."Don't play ball in the house...or in my case I say, "Boys, don't wrestle in the dining room next to my china cabinet!"...or "Stop riding your skateboard on my hardwood floor!!!" Some things you have to keep reminding til' they get it through their heads. Sometimes it's a gentle reminder, sometimes it's a stiff rebuke.
Although frustrating, I think it's just part of the ministry.
Some Random Ramblings about Carnal Christians and Religious Spirits
A big fat "been there, done that (doing that!), got the T-shirt" to the rural church syndrome!
I keep telling my DH (the new church office administrator) and our senior pastor that they need to make a big engraved plaque for the church that says, "If we always do what we always did, we'll always get what we always got."
Trouble is, I think people like "what we've always done."
But miracle of miracles...one of my workers (we call her Saint Bonnie!) came up to me and said that after 30 years, she is TIRED of the old Sunday School curriculum and wants to try something else. Change? In MY tiny little church? There is a light at the end of the tunnel after all!!!
I, too, wonder if some of the people in my church even know Jesus. I don't doubt that they've had a salvation experience. But do they really KNOW Him? How can you know Jesus personally and then continue as though nothing has changed?
I wrote a play last year (it has yet to be performed - we're looking for the right cast!) called "Confessions of a Church Brat," that highlights a group of five kids who grow up in the church from preschool through adulthood, and how they find (or don't find!) a relationship with God. It's a pretty powerful piece - a lot of it is based on my life and the lives of friends I knew growing up, but I can tell you that a lot of churches who need to hear the message of what we are communicating to our kids will not like the message they hear.
It drives me nuts to see adults sitting in the pews bored out of their minds and seeing the kids imitating them. We have a very "religious" couple in our church who brought their grandkids one Sunday. During the praise songs (we keep the kids in the sanctuary during worship), a lot of times the preschoolers will come up front with us and dance. No, they don't quite understand the concept of dancing before the Lord, but I love that they're learning that church is a fun and joyful place to be! Anyway, this lady came up in the middle of worship and grabbed her granddaughter, yanking her away from the other kids. I wanted to walk up to her and say, "Better a millstone be placed around your neck and you be thrown into the sea..." I was ANGRY!! When will people stop passing their religiosity and carnality on to the next generations? Dang, I think I'll use that in my sermon this Sunday!!!
These topics of conversation this week have been exactly what I've needed to get fired up for Sunday. Pray for me, everyone! I really think God has some things He wants to say through me...
Your message sounds wonderful!!!!! And the play sounds great too. Awesome ideas.
What you say is so true Puppetmaster. Just tonight at my ladies meeting, the speaker (our presbyter's wife) gave illustration of a lady in Sam's Club who cut in front of one of her church ladies in line. The woman had a huge cart full and the woman from the church only had one item. Not only did the lady cut in front of her but she was very rude and caused a big scene. Actually she had been causing a scene the whole time she was in the store being difficult with the employees and stuff. Well, when she has this scene at the door she was evidently wearing clothing or something that declared she was a Christian!!!! The lady from our PW's church said something about it and the woman indignantly replied something like, "I AM A BELIEVER! I KNOW JESUS!" And our pw's church member was so embarrassed about this whole thing because what were the poor people from Sam's Club thinking? Obviously they are thinking, "if this is a Christian, I certainly don't want to be one!" We have to ask ourselves...what are we advertising by our actions?
Some things you have to keep reminding til' they get it through their heads. Sometimes it's a gentle reminder, sometimes it's a stiff rebuke. 
