Okay, here's a question for you staffers, former staffers, or SP's:
At what point do I say something about other staff members sitting around criticizing the way the church is being run? Today's topic between the two of them was our adult education classes and small groups...apparently these are not to their liking. I remained in my office and didn't join the conversation, because a.) I'm the children's pastor, and it is not my responsibility to dictate how adult education or small groups are run; and b.) I am still convinced that one of these days our SP's are going to arrive in the middle of one of their diatribes (which only happen when they're not in the office!), and I don't even want to be found in the same room as them when it happens!
The thing is, it grates on my nerves. These people really have no idea how good they've got it! And this is why I'm hesitant to "blow the whistle," because I feel like I'm overly sensitive to office gossip due to past experience.
But we really are dealing with an "Absalom attitude/spirit" here with YP - Never mind that our church has grown steadily every year that it's been in existence...giving has increased every year...and people are getting saved, discipled, and plugged in...apparently, it's not happening fast enough for him. In his eyes, our SP and PW are "old school A/G," and somewhat out of touch with the way churches need to be in order to grow.
Nothing could be further from the truth - yes, they are in their early 50's and are grandparents. But this church is very contemporary...very ethnically diverse...very much on the cutting edge of ministry. We're just not a megachurch. Then again, the church started out with three members however many years ago, and has grown steadily and healthily since then, to the 400+ people we currently have. But YP can't seem to figure out whether he thinks we should be a megachurch or a relational "Gen X coffeehouse" type church. Either way, it's really not his decision to make.
I don't want to paint myself to be some saint - but seriously...I'm just here because God called me here. As long as I get my weekly paycheck, I really don't care how the church money is spent - I don't even deal with my own finances; why on earth would I worry about the church's?
None of us on staff were hired to worry about the overall vision of the church - we were hired to support our senior pastor's vision in whatever area we are responsible for. DH and I were talking last night (we were talking about the war in Iraq, but it still sort of applies here!) about how our society is accustomed to thinking we have all the information about everything, and that we can make an informed decision on how things are being run - whether it's a decision that the President has made with the information he's been given (that we, as the American people don't have access to), or whether it's a church staff thinking that we know everything there is to know about our church, its people, and why our pastor makes the decisions he makes. Sometimes he lets us in on them; other times, there is no need for him to do so.
I guess after all my rambling, my question is this: How do I make the distinction between their just shooting off their mouths and their saying things that are actually subversive? Either way, it's irritating and wrong - but at what point is it my responsibility to talk to my SPs about this? And how do I do so without coming across like a bratty schoolgirl (as in, "I'm telling!!!")?
First Puppetmaster, I know I've told you this before so many times but THANK YOU. You are an example of what every staffer should be, and you give all of us who are SP's hope for the future of the Church of Jesus Christ as regards staffers.
This is such a sticky situation because you don't want to be a tattletale, yet you are a true armor bearer and when an armor bearer is doing what they are supposed to do, the protect their pastor.
First I want to ask you - has the YP ever said anything, even hinted to anything, actually around your pastors? Or is this completely hidden except when they are out of the office? The reason i ask is, if he or they are exuding this attitude at all, rest assurred, your pastors have picked up on it. Many times my dh and I have gone through issues with staffers and we never say a word to the other staff about it - we act like everything is great around all of them - however we might really be having a serious issue with one, just don't broadcast it. Your pastors may be right on top of this thing and you don't even know it. If he has shown his attitude or seemed like a know it all or come across that they should be going in a different direction, you might be surprised at how much they do know, first of all.
But then again if this is very well hidden right now they may be blindsided by it, and you have to be careful that they not be blindsided. Here are things I would definitely do...
1) Keep doing what you are doing - stay away completely when they are talking negatively - don't ever chime in. 2) If you do get caught standing with them when they say one of these things, correct them. I believe you have that right. Not as an "authority" but as a fellow Christian and staff member who is doing the righteous thing, the honorable thing. I would give them the same reasoning you gave in your post above... "we aren't called to formulate the vision of this church...that is up to our pastors...we are here to serve them..." 3) Have you thought of somehow weaving the subject of the books, "Armor Bearer I & II" by Terry Nance into a staff meeting? Maybe even saying, "I've got these great resources, I just wanted all of our staff to know about in fulfilling our calling to be as great a support as we can to our senior pastors..." If I was you, I'd even bring a copy of the book to staff meeting, then at some point before closing of the meeting say, "Pastor, can I say something?" then when he/she gives you permission say, "you know, my heart has just been touched recently even more as to how we as staff can serve and support you. I've come across this resource and I wanted to mention it not only for our other staffers but maybe the church could even invest in some copies of this to give our board or ministry leaders...what do you think Pastor?" I don't think any pastor out there would resist this - the materials are all about building up and supporting their leadership. Just an idea. Of course the YP is probably going to want to choke you but then again you've been wanting to choke him, so you'd be about even at that point. 4) DO NOT let them talk negatively to the people of the church if you are within earshot. I would correct them in front of church people. Again, this is well within your bounds even just as a Christian. If they are bad mouthing your pastor to another church member or questioning the pastor's leadership or direction, absolutely say something. 5) The main thing is, pray that God would arrange circumstances to expose it clearly without hurting the church body, and that it would come to light (if the pastors don't already know) so they can deal with it.
Thanks for the advice...I'm still thinking and praying about whether or not this is the right time to talk to my SP about this. You're probably right; I'm sure he's picked up on the sucky attitude - although they tend to limit their little conversations to when SP and PW are out of the office.
Still, as my Missionettes coordinator (a loud, sassy Latina woman) says, "I'm not gonna let him steal my joy!!" I'm in a great place; I'm well paid; and I'm not going anywhere. If he sees me as a perpetual thorn in his side because I won't put up with his comments in my presence, then he can leave.
I've got bigger fish to fry right now...like the Christmas play...finding myself a new preschool coordinator...and enjoying the rest of my fall!!
Buy the book: How to stop runaway conversations . Or when to speak up and when to shut up by Dr. Michael Sedler. It's what you need and every office should study together.
Whew! your post really rang my bell. You said, the YP thinks "our SP and PW are "old school A/G,"
First, my husband and I are in the proces of planting a new church. We're way older than your pastors. (don't ask!) But, if they are doing the job of loving people, presenting the Word faithfully, they are not too old.
Our new church is callled "Early Church" in the nespaper because we meet at 8:00 am Sun morning. All the other churches meet at 10 or 11 am. We're pretty "old school," but know how to deal with post-moderns as well. Mature people can be known for their maturity.
Regarding the gossipers, or whiners as the case may be...if those kinds of discussions come up, defend when you can, walk away when you can't.
From other posts I've read the YP is immature, lacks self-confidence, and needs much prayer and a sense of who he is in Christ.
How's this situation going? I think that what you opened with in pargraph 6 is great to say when YP starts up. Plus, maybe something like: Maybe it's time for you to move on and try some of your idea's when you're the SP. Lastly, I truly appreciated a past secretary whom had to "fill me in" on a MMin attitude and backstabbing. She was also willing to let us use her name in confrontation as we held him accountable. I am also thankful for a YP's wife whom filled me in on another staffer's usurping authority years ago. Therefore, consider if your SP were to hold YP accountable...would you be willing to meet with them should YP deny it? Sometimes in these situations just holding someone accountable stops the misbehavior. Other times, it's just the beginning of the end. For us, it was the beginning of the end for both the staffers who were speaking defaming statements. P.S. You are a good writer. And sound like a good staffer. Our churchs is around the same size...maybe a little bigger.
Really didn't have a lot to report on this until now...
My DH had a meeting with our SP yesterday (this wasn't the main purpose of the meeting, but it came up!) and let him know what was going on. He had not discussed with me previously that he was going to do this, but he prefaced it by saying that he's probably the better member of our team to bring it up, since he doesn't have to work in the office with those two every day!
Anyway, SP said that he had actually received comments of that nature from OTHER people in the congregation who had told him the same thing, and that my DH's bringing it to his attention was confirmation that he needed to deal with it. He assured him that this would be handled 100% discreetly and that our names would not be brought into it at all.
Also...that I had done absolutely the right thing by removing myself from these conversations when they start up after it became obvious that they weren't going to listen to a word I said.
