I'm starting a new thread on this because I think it's a worthy topic. Cassandra had mentioned in her last post about her husband running to and fro without much rest. And that he doesn't just have the meet the pastor's expectation, but that people in the church are constantly calling and asking for things.
This, in my opinion, needs to be rectified. I believe a church minister or employee of any kind (administrative, facilities, etc.) will eventually go bonkers if this is left to continue.
Larry and I believe ANY of our staff answers to us -- PERIOD. Of course first and foremost we are all answerable to God and we are serving Him! But I mean who we are accountable to in the natural. As far as our staff -- we do not allow anyone else to put expectations on them. In fact, I get very upset if anyone does! The staff do not answer to the board -- they answer to us. We are responsible for all matters concerning pastoral, or support staff. Board members or other congregants do not have permission to ask them to do ANYTHING. Their job description is set by the senior pastors -- PERIOD. If "anyone" who wanted to could ask our staff to do things, they would probably eventually have a heart attack or nervous breakdown!!! This doesn't mean they don't work hard. They do! But they receive their directives from us.
There are even times when church people will ask my assistant, Lindsay, to do things. I nip it in the bud right away and let the "offender" know -- it's not acceptable. With the work I give her alone, it's enough to keep her busy until Jesus comes back! I can't imagine if she would be doing someone else's work. People try to get her to do things but I either tell them no, or she tells them no herself.
I believe in a healthy church situation the entire staff is accountable to the senior pastor, and the senior pastor is accountable to the board, although he is head of the board and clearly given the authority by God to lead the church, the board is his/her gift in seeing the mission and vision come to pass and they also serve in making sure financial accountability is in order, etc.
But I can't imagine our staff running to and fro with whatever church member called them for whatever. Has Barak thought of telling the people, "Let me mention it to Pastor and see what he wants to do (or wants me to do)..."??? Or he could say, "Well, sister/brother...I'll mention that to the pastor, but he has already given me some direction as to things he needs me to do right now." This might stop the flow of all these myriad of requests that are coming his way.
Also, if he just keeps doing it without saying anything (I assume maybe he doesn't tell the pastor about every call/request that's coming in) the pastor will not know he is being overburdened by all this. I would let your pastor know that you desire to serve him in whatever way possible and be his armor bearer -- but you are not called to be "the church's armor bearer" -- you are called to be HIS armor bearer. Know what I mean?
Just my 2 cents on the issue. I'm going to be praying with you that things get better so you all can spend some time together and accomplish what you need to in ministry as well without burning out.
I think most churches work this way. Because if say our secretary was asked like "Can you make 200 copies of this for my homeschool group?" or "can you fax this?", I mean she is only there five hours a day, five days a week. She would never get the Pastor's work done if everyone did that. I have asked, when my ministry fax was broken, I have asked that she fax something, but I went to the Pastor first!!! He made the request for me. I would never just barge into her office and tell her to do something. I hope most folks would not.We only have 2 Pastors. One for the youth, and a senior Pastor. We know from being there a while who to go to for what need. If we need a week of meals for a sick member, we go to our hospitality lady, Jill. For counseling a teen, that's the youth Pastor and his wife, she is very active! Adult counseling, Senior Pastor, David. His wife Cindy is a special needs therapist, if we have a member with special needs issues, we go to her. Pro life stuff, homeschooling, sick kids, that stuff often comes to me. We also have other nurses in the church who take turns checking blood pressures for the elderly, or whoever after early service and before sunday school. Once, this saved the life of someone about to have a stroke. Music, goes through Barry, our minister of music. Sunday School stuff, our director for that, Amy. and so on....Everyone's expectations from the Pastor are very clear! This is best for all.
In my very long winded way,( sorry!) I think I am saying that there are almost always others in the church happy to take a load off of another's shoulders. And folks need to be taught who is in charge of what ,so that staffers do not get overloaded. Our secretary knows who to call for what, and she will send those who do not know to the proper person(standing instructions from the Pastor, and youth Pastor) This has worked very well! No confusion or uncomfortable confrontations. It's not perfect now, but usually, everything gets done by the person in charge and there are no harsh feelings. The Pastors and staffers cannot be everywhere doing everything. God Bless Ladies!! lw
-- Edited by LW at 19:17, 2004-10-21
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...... Then they came for the Catholics, and I was a Protestant, so I never said anything. And then, they came for ME, and there was no one left to speak up. Martin Neimoller, German Pastor, WW2
You guys can't imagine (we'll you probably can) what kind of problems have come from this kind of problem. Every Friday he is expected by pastor to be in the church office for counseling. He is expected to by the board to be "on call" for whatever PASTOR needs. But youre right. He does need to answer people's request differently. It is just hard because pastor has put dh over the van ministry, the hospital visitation team, phone ministry and about every other smaller ministry that no one else was actually "over" at the time. Barak in turn has to delegate some of that to others but that opens up other stuff he winds up having to do. And what is really making it hard is Barak knows what our tithe is and he KNOWS our church can afford to pay him. But all he gets for all he does is $300 a week. He really does put in full time hours. He has to to get everything done. Yet pastor tells him the understanding was when he hired dh was to work part time at his sales in advertising. When? He will be in the middle of selling and something will come up and he has to tend to it. It is hard. To make matters worse sales are not happening. So we are falling behind. bad. He hasn't told me how bad because I don't want to know. But he said it's bad. And with any business, I'm not going to turn a profit for atleast a year. I have a payment on this machine you know. So he is so stressed. He HATES to go to pastor and tell him we're not making it. He knows he will hear a lecture or be made to feel bad somehow. He has the opportunity to go back part time to his county job as an emergency dispatcher. But pastor will go off on him about that wasn't part of the agreement. Today what has been so bad around here is dh knowing what our church has $ wise, adn people that would be FURIOUS if they knew we were struggling so bad $ but he has to be so loyal. And I feel so sorry for him. I can't imagine the stress he feels. I would have quit. I know. But ist is tough to do a job, give and give of yourself and know you aren't making ends meet and feeling unappreciated. Keep in mind. My husband is a sensitive guy. He is not macho domineering you know. Sweet tender before the Lord kind of guy. Pastor is not emotional. He moves solely on factual thinking things through. No emotional decisions here. So he WOULD NOT understand Barak's "feelings". And that is hard. because Barak has been so faithful and loyal. And as his wife it makes me feel sorry for dh and I'll be honest a little mad at pastor sometimes.But I try to keep free from offense.It all makes my husband wish he was doing something else in ministry. As he puts it "it's time for my ministry to open up" We realy need to know wehter he needs to renew his contract at the first of the year. He is really heave about that. I love him yall and I am tired of seeing so bogged down adn unhappy. His only joy is the periodic "hits" he'll get when he really gets to see God move through something he has said or done. I know it has to be a test. And I try to watch what I say and not "mother" him (be sympathetic toward him and angry toward others, wanting to fix it.)when I don't know exactly what God is up to. It feels good jus to actually say these things. I have talked to no one about all this. I have no one to talk to about it but you guys. You're the greatest.,Thanks for letting me air out my heart, good bad and ugly.
Oh.....I get it. The pastor has put him "in charge" of these ministries, so therefore the people do come to him and find out what's going on or ask him to do things because they have been told that he is in charge. (And technically, he is...but it's too much. Especially with working another job.)
I really commend you both for being loyal. God is going to bless your socks off. Here is my personal opinion...
You definitely need to stay loyal because the Word of God commands that you do, especially if you want to walk in God's blessing in your future, BUT...that doesn't mean you cannot talk to you pastor privately and let him know YOUR DH CANNOT HANDLE THIS ANYMORE. IT'S TOO MUCH, FOR ANY ONE MAN, WOMAN OR COUPLE, PERIOD. The pastor brings up, "that wasn't part of our original agreement." In one way I can understand that because with Larry and I if we have an agreement with someone when they come on staff, we do not want it to be broken -- if they expect to remain on staff, and if we feel strongly that we need that particular staff member to fulfill the same exact role that we brought them in to do. BUT -- they also reserve the right to say, "I can't live out this agreement anymore." If you let your pastor know that in the right spirit, he will either make the decision to make some changes in Barak's expectations, or he will let you know perhaps it's best that you move on to something else at this point. Basically you are putting it in his lap, but staying loyal and not letting the congregation know your feelings. Know what I mean?
I got into a situation like this once as a staff person. Believe me, if anybody can handle work, it's me. I'm a work horse. If I say I can't handle something it has to be almost to the heart attack point. I found myself in such a situation once and let my leader know...this is not working. I need to ask that you consider a few changes, or for the sake of my own health and sanity, I need to resign. It worked, and btw, the person was NOT my dh! Although I have had to have talks with him from time to time...
Sometimes we go into something and agree to it in good faith but then we realize it was more, or different than we thought it was. If we feel we are in God's will, that's fine, but what about when you feel you are just to the breaking point? I would talk to the pastor. If he feels strongly that he doesn't want to make any changes, you have to respect that and just peaceably move on. But who knows, he might be more open to it than you think.
Maybe Barak could tell him, "Pastor, I'm over so many things that instead of doing 3 things well, I feel like I'm doing 10 things poorly. Could we perhaps zero in on a few things that you really want me to zero in on, heart and soul, to help you and be most effective?"
I realize I'm not there...none of us on this board are "there" with you in person and so what is being suggested just might not work in your situation. I know sometimes when I talk to my friends in ministry who aren't in my church, they will suggest something and I'll think, "No, that won't work, you just don't understand how things are here..." Every church is so different and the personalities involved, etc...
But in any case even if you can't use any of this advice, I'll be thinking of you and praying for you.
I don't mean to make pastor out as a hard dictator. He's not. He is such a genuine shepard and the only real pastor we've known. The only other pastor we'd beed under wanted to be on tv and was always letting the church know they were believing for TBN. No joke. We always lived in the hope they were gonna get famous then our church would grow. When now I know we'd been left alone probably.
They have staff meeting every monday morning and everyone gets their orders for the week. But the church secretary is always calling Barak and saying you need to go do this and go do that and he said it feels like he's working for her not pastor. She's even made snide remarks about him leaving me at home alone so much, going all the time, getting behind on our school tuition payment (that made me mad) She's our age and all so what started out well and like friendly joking over the course of two years is getting annoying. I'm sure she's jaded by seeing things she has to see out of people too. But I'd rather someone just come out and say something to me than slur me. ANyway that is a whole other subject.
Back to the subject at hand, here's where the real struggle comes in while talking to pastor. And really is something my husband has got to come to terms with. I just feel for him, you know. But he is afraid to tell pastor he is tired of all struggling $ and spiritually (I'm talking long periods of time, just going through the motions, baptizing people becuase he was told to) and feeling no joy except for occassional spurts when he would feel GOd's spirit. THen that actually made it worse cause then he knew something was off. He knew it wasn't him. His heart is to raise up people to go into the nations and minister and to stir up people to get real about what their faith means and not just survive (which by the way is preached out of his own heart becasuse he feels like that is what is happening to HIM).
In working with pastor (who is very influencial in our circle) he has met some men in ministry who could open doors for him and get him doing what he's dreamed of for 11 years. So he is afraid to talk to pastor afraid pastor will cut him off and bad mouth him to everyone. And ruin his ministry saying things like Barak can't handle it when he knows and I know it's not all BArak. And yes I'll be the first to admit ( and have stressed to dh) that if he were organized he couild handle this better but it's not ALL him. Pastor has even admitted to dh that he was being hard on him to train him and see what he's made of. And he doesn't realize he's come so close to causing me to just want to leave the church and say forget it. I'll be a background wife. I just can't express the three years of this. It will be good for a few days then dh will hit a low. THen God will something that will encourage him for maybe a day or two. But then pastor will shoot it down and dh gets REALLY frustrated. He doesn't even tell it all to me becasue he doesn't want me to get offended at pastor. And I'm glad he doesn't. Does all this make sense. Even if it doesn't I'm sitting here near tears feeling like I could let a river flow because I so want my husband to find his destiny and purpose and I know this isn't it and we feel like we have been faithful and God is right at the door of opening it up but we all know that is when it gets the hardest is right before promotion. But Ithank God pastor has acknowledged to dh taht he knew his call was greater than just our local body and that God even let our district type person (pastors mentor) prophesy to us as a couple that God was going to explode our ministry and that our time was coming soon to be ready. That meant the world. Cause if I'm able to express what dh is feeling, I know I can't express what I have felt knowing God's giving me a call to teach and knowing pastor has NO desire for a woman to teach in his pulpit. His wife has spoken one time on fasting for like 15 minutes on a Wednesday night. That's been it. Ministers wives have "testified" but never broke open the Word of GOd for a whole service. (And no that I desire it. I actually actually DON"T but I know it's there and know it's in my future.) I have taught Sunday School I'm just saying no woman will go past SS in our church. ANd we have a good size church. But actually if I think about it a woman isn't going to do too much in our AREA. Guys MIssissippi is tough spiritually. We went to the Ozarks the other day (Just to rub it in...I got to eat at CHuck E CHeese with Twila Paris!) I was flipping out and she was just as nice. But anyway DH is going to China in Nov. with her brother Oren. We had such a good time and in just 2 days found peace in our spirit and heard God's voice and Barak had such a peace and has so I can't even find the words/ But it lasted until we got into MS and just stated feelin gthe same old frustrations and spiritual anxiety. Well I've rambled on enough. Thank you guys for your prayers. It means so much to know youre not alone. Lord knows we ministers and wives can feel alone.
But its gonna get better and God is going to move for us I know it. I just wish it was now. lol
In my humble opinion...what it boils down to in all this is that you need to seek God as to whether he wants you to endure this for a while or whether it is His will that you move on sooner rather than later. I know you have opened yourself up for a move, because with this last church that your pastor told you about (the one that fell through) you were open to it. Have you thought of opening yourselves up for other opportunities, even ones that do not come through your pastor, but ones you pursue yourself? (Through resumes, etc.)
It's just "my opinion" again, but I don't believe God would want you to continue in this if it would do either of these things:
1) Cause your marriage/family to go down the tubes/be in serious jeopardy
2) Cause you to get to the point where you as a wife quit ministry or sit on the back seat.
I am not saying you should just up and quit without a plan. But I am saying, do you think you should "actively" seek ministry elsewhere rather than just wait for something to open, or depend upon your pastor to let you know of open doors?
I believe God will open up something where Barak can not only fulfill his call, but you can too. God doesn't gift people and equip them and then expect them to bury their gifts. Only dead things get buried, and God doesn't want your gifts to die.
You do have to respect your pastor's authority and handle things correctly (and you are)...but that doesn't mean that you can't open yourself up to a call elsewhere.
Hi ladies! I had to chat with my Pastor tonight about some minisrty biz so I asked him about the topic of being overwhelmed with every need, and he just unloaded! I reminded him that he can call DH and me for things that he needs to delegate. He said he does need to learn to do this more. I said I had been chatting with some wonderful ladies in ministry about this issue and he's so glad that this is being discussed and prayed for!(he may even send his wife our way!) He would like prayer to get through the weekend as he has three back to back to back commitments tomorrow that he can't give to others. He is giving a seminar in the AM, doing a wedding in the afternoon(the seminar is an hour away from the church), and then he has to drive to DC to pick up his wife at the airport! He says he is feeling alot of stress right now and pressure to handle everything alone. He is seeking wisdom from God on how to better delegate things to others in the church. His name is David. Could we lift him up ladies? Cassandra, I think Deanna is very right in that God does not call people to something if it is at the sacrifice of your family. And it is always better to do 3 things very well, than to do 10 things poorly. I will pray about this. Maybe your dear Pastor just does not understand the scope of the problems you are facing. I pray God will give you both wisdom as to how to approach him, and what to do about your situation. Be at peace my sister in Christ. love, lw
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...... Then they came for the Catholics, and I was a Protestant, so I never said anything. And then, they came for ME, and there was no one left to speak up. Martin Neimoller, German Pastor, WW2
Although I have had to have talks with him from time to time... 
